Simple Upgrades That Can Make a Big Difference

We're pulling Steve out of the weeds of last episode to give a high level review of some simple bike upgrades that can make a difference. From front to back, top to bottom, we cover a little bit of everything.

Kristin and Steve also discuss recent reactions to video shorts and why the hot takes and strong opinions make cycling feel intimidating.

Transcript

Kristin 0:04

This is Kristin.

Steve 0:05

And this is Steve, and you are listening to Cycling Together, a podcast about all things bikes, riding, and riding together. All right. Well, we are doing a part two series because last time we talked about upgrades. Yes. And I guess we got a little in the weeds and we're big picture. Me. Me. Right. So um, yeah, there was a lot of theory, generalizations, and so I we thought this time let's just go into sort of product classes. We'll pick up, we'll pick each part of the bike and you will and say, okay, what is worthy of an upgrade? Yeah. Why should you think about an upgrade in that case?

Kristin 0:45

Yeah, I think some of the feedback we got from friends was I kind of expected more of a quick list, which is really hard with parts and components. Like super hard, and there's so much that goes into the thinking, but I do think for the lay person like me, I'm just looking for you to say this, this good, this good, this good. Right. But before we get to that, let's talk about last week's show. So, as uh as you know, we I clip out pieces of the podcasts and I share them to all the socials, and they're about 90 seconds. So let's be clear, you can't get that much so way past the attention span of normal social media. Exactly. And there are a couple of reasons I do that. Um, one, obviously, is to grow your audience, right? To get more people listening, um, connecting to the shop. But also, it's because I know someone's not going to listen to an hour and a half podcast, or they may not even know about the podcast. And I think you share really good information for just the average person or someone who's thinking about cycling who's just not that deep into the weeds. And the goal, of course, is to break down the barriers to make cycling more welcoming and less confusing.

Steve 2:04

Okay.

Kristin 2:05

Okay. That's the setup. This week, I we had two videos that actually hit 10,000 views. Um, and that happens when you know people start to comment on them. And the comments we get on them tend to be hot takes and insults. Right. Um, and the two were one was about disc breaks versus caliber. Yep. And one was about wireless shifting. Yeah. And some of the comments we got were, let's see, we had several people tell us that you and others that we knew who commented were clueless and stupid, and that we should uh STF you. Who talks to people that way is my number one. Okay. And then we other comments we got like, who cares what they're saying, lady? Both are available. Pick what you like and get on with your day, which was about the brakes.

Steve 2:56

Yeah. Um the brakes or the shifting.

Kristin 2:58

That was about the brakes. Okay. Okay. Then on the shifting, I'm left wondering how long these rides must be for shifting to be that bothersome of a convenience. Imagine complaining about pressing a button. Are we seriously saying it's physically hard to shift? Fing what? They did not say effing. And the last one was the meme of two cartoon guys laughing hysterically and then saying, women. Right. Okay. All those last ones were on the shifters. Yeah. I have so many thoughts on this. First of all, I would like to acknowledge most of the people, all, all of the people making the hot takes and terrible comments were men. Number one. And number two, they were not our men. No. They were not our, they were not your customers. They were not our friends. They were not our colleagues. They were people from outside the world. Right. Um, but it was a really good reminder to me about why cycling feels so intimidating and why cycling feels like such a not-for-me thing when you have all these people who are like even faced with facts, right? We had one guy come in to the brakes one to talk about how you know caliber brakes are just as strong. And somebody else came in, and in four long comments, including the physic, the physics of it with the formula, explained why disc brakes were actually more powerful or whatever.

Steve 4:33

The thing is, is you can't you you can only buy disc brakes. That whole the buying point is just a point.

Kristin 4:39

I mean, but it's like even when faced with science, the guy was like, No. Right. Even no, you're wrong. So I guess I don't know what the point here is, other than it's just a reminder. First of all, there's just a uh no empathy for people, no empathy for why someone might need a certain technology, arthritis, um, you know, fused joints. Like, um, but also I think it's important to remind people, women, pain is not required to earn upgrades. Experience is not required to earn upgrades, right? Like we've had this at the shop where someone's like, Well, I bought this and it's terrible and I hate it and it hurts, but I'm going to ride it longer because I have to before I earn the next thing.

Steve 5:33

Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying.

Kristin 5:34

You're like, I mean, again, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. That's that's different. But like pain, a lot of these people were like, somebody was somebody said, um, disc brakes are, you know, only acceptable for mountain bikes or road night, road bikes don't need them. And I replied, as you, well, as my wife said when riding the PMC in the rain, they are they were really good. And his reply was like, I'll give it to you if there's hills. Why do I only get to ride? I only get to use discs if I I'm on hills. I only get to use wireless if if it if I'm riding long enough. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?

Steve 6:17

Yeah.

Kristin 6:17

Okay.

Steve 6:18

There was a time where a lot of those comments probably would have bugged me and I they just completely shed right off me. I do not care.

Kristin 6:25

Well, I think you have the confidence of a man. You have the confidence of an informed man in the cycling industry. You have the confidence of years of knowledge. Um, and I'm not looking at it as like I don't deserve it. I guess I'm looking at as someone who's trying to figure out how to make cycling more welcoming. And you see that and you're like, this is this is part of our problem.

Steve 6:50

This is it is a problem.

Kristin 6:51

You know what I'm saying? This is, and this needs to be like, lock it down, idiots. Like that's that that's that's more what I'm saying. It doesn't affect me because I'm gonna get all the things. I don't, I'm not gonna be in pain. Forget it. Right? My saddle hurts, I'm getting a new saddle. Like I'm not I'm not putting up with that. Right. But there are others that again, you hear that and you think they don't have a resource like you. They don't have um the knowledge base.

Steve 7:19

I mean Yeah, well, you can imagine somebody going out and basically asking the internet about what they should do about a certain problem and then getting comments like that.

Kristin 7:27

Yes, yeah, exactly. And then the person who was like, hey lady, who cares? Pick one or the other. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be more knowledgeable. Right. Like he was like, who cares? Just ride your bike, stop talking so much. It's my podcast. Get off the internet.

Steve 7:46

Podcast over, that's it, we're done. There's no need to talk about this anymore.

Kristin 7:49

Yeah, anyway, I'm not gonna stop posting. I I had a little reconciliation with myself. Like, I'm not gonna stop with the videos. I might not post them as frequently, I may not post them to all the channels. I don't know, but I'm not gonna stop because I do think I do think it's good to get good information out there. Yep. And the reality is you do you you gained like 35 followers on Instagram in in a couple of days, which is not huge numbers, but so for all the people that are yelling, there are other people who are like, Oh, smart, I'm gonna follow. They're just not saying anything.

Steve 8:28

Right. So, in other words, the algorithms support idiots yelling at each other, and then that gives you more support.

Kristin 8:34

A little bit, and it's hard, you know. I I once I was like, Oh, this our our you know, the videos are being viewed by 99% non-followers, but that's also because it's been viewed 10,000 times. You don't have that many followers, right? Right? Like just percentage-wise, once it starts to take off, it's always gonna be a larger percentage. You only have on Instagram like 1,300 followers, right? Like, so it's it's gonna, that's not a I realize that's a skewed number. But the comments, yeah, the comments are wide. And it's always if you read them, it's like the comments that are calm and kind. Oh, I know him. Oh, it's Amos. Oh, it's you know, and the STFU right, that guy's in like England.

Steve 9:19

You know. Oh, is he? Yeah.

Kristin 9:20

Some of them, yeah. Some, oh, I do, I do spend too much time thinking about this. I did have a couple of friends reach out to me because I shared some um of the screenshots, and you know, a couple of people just kind of counseling me and and and reminding me to protect like that this is up to us how much we want to put out there, how much we want to, how much, you know, it's not uh it's not our responsibility to respond. So the internet's great.

Steve 9:52

That uh that English guy must be all over GCN's videos then.

Kristin 9:56

I don't even know some of them, some of them I honestly don't even think what there was one guy who came in. It was about how how much a I think the British guy I'm thinking of was he came into the one about how much a road bike should weigh. And he was like, bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road.

Steve 10:14

Oh, right, right.

Kristin 10:14

What are you do what are you doing? Who are you? Why are you here?

Steve 10:19

And how did this get in your feed?

Kristin 10:20

How did this get into your feed? Exactly. Like how what?

Steve 10:24

You gotta go watch the go watch the uh the the SUV's hitting bunny rabbits videos and you're used to exactly what are we doing here?

Kristin 10:36

So yeah, I I think I try to find answers and I'm not I'm not gonna find anything. So anyway, speaking of answers, let's talk about upgrades. Let's talk about more things like that. I can't get yelled at on the internet, or you can. Right.

Steve 10:52

All right, all right. So we're gonna kind of go through each category on a bike, and I did want to start off by saying that sometimes an upgrade, and we're gonna call it that in a will, if you will, is not necessarily an actual physical part, it is a change to your existing bicycle.

Kristin 11:09

Okay. Let's start with the first one, which is seat posts and dropper posts.

Steve 11:14

Okay. So seat posts on road bikes and gravel bikes. Okay. I suppose dropper posts on mountain bikes, but there can be some carryover to gravel bikes. So um, so like the only reason to really upgrade, if we're gonna put that in quotes, uh your seat post on a regular non-dropper post is because you want to get it a little lighter, but you're not gonna notice that in the bike. So it's actually a lot of times about the flex of the seat post. Um and a lot of the comfort uh that you can get on a road bike, in a gravel bike, comes from the flex of the post. And so, you know, back in the day when top tubes on bikes, on road bikes were straight across, they were horizontal to the ground. Okay, right, or parallel to the ground. And then they started having um sloped top tubes and so forth. That actually a lot of that reason was so they could reduce the number of sizes they made, but it actually increased the length of your seatpost that was exposed. Okay, and that in one part created more comfort, especially over longer distances. It's because it's a very minor thing. Well, you're not gonna notice it on a 10-mile ride, but on very long rides, it will dampen the road buzz.

Kristin 12:33

I was gonna say it never occurred to me that my seatposts flex it.

Steve 12:38

Yeah, it and it does quite a bit count.

Kristin 12:40

So you're talking about it like kind of move bending back, yeah, absolutely.

Steve 12:44

And so you know it was about 20 years ago, it's there was a lot, there was a time when a lot of road bike brands were upsizing their seatposts, 30.9, 31.6. And you know, it was all about rigidity and putting that power into the saddle and putting the power to the road. Oh, and then it was ooh, these things are harsh, right? So nothing else really a lot of the about the bike changed that much except the big fat diameter seat post, which made it stiffer, and and all of a sudden people were like, This ride's too harsh. So that went away quickly. Um, and even Cannendale was like, Well, we're gonna make our seatpost really skinny, and I think it was 25-4 maybe uh millimeter diameter. Anyway, they they went to a skinnier seat post on their synapse to to even make it flex more to get more comfort. 272 is pretty much the de facto standard. That is where everything settled settled into.

Kristin 13:39

But aren't you limited by like the the diameter? Right, of the of the frame.

Steve 13:45

Well, yeah, you have to get the size seat post for your frame.

Kristin 13:48

Okay, right?

Steve 13:48

So they do come in different diameters down to the point one millimeter.

Kristin 13:54

That's what I'm saying.

Steve 13:55

Like how do you but you know, and uh well, a long time ago you'd find a lot more diameters, but nowadays it is really 27.2, okay, 30.9 on mountain bikes and 31.6 on mountain bikes. Right. Right.

Kristin 14:11

Um does the material of a seat post matter? Like a like carbon versus Yeah.

Steve 14:17

So this is where you might upgrade because if you go to carbon from an aluminum post, not only will you typically get more flex, okay, but you'll also that the properties of the carbon will dampen road buzz more as well. So over the long term, over the long ride, you will feel more refreshed at the end. You know, all these little things add up. Um now, a lot of road bikes are now coming with arrow seat posts. So it's like a cam tail, it's a D-shaped seat post. Yeah, so the air flows over it smoother. These um an arrow means a lot in the road. Yes. But these have now gone back to negating some of that flex because of the shape of the post, and now it can no longer flex as easy as a round post. Okay. Um, so I'll mention I will mention Scott's new era posts that have a big cutout in the back. Okay. So what they've done is they've created a a basically a dual-purpose system. One, the post is very skinny in the middle, so now it flexes again. Yep. And then also they have accessories that that you can fit into that. So right as it comes out of the box, it's just basically a rubber insert so that it keeps that D-shaped profile. Um, but you can put in, you know, the uh tail light that fits in there, and I think they might have a saddlebag and that kind of stuff that goes in that space. But it remaintains the flex.

Kristin 15:40

Are the D-shaped ones proprietary seats? They are so like when you're buying the bike, you want to think about whether or not the the frame requires a proprietary seat post.

Steve 15:53

You do, and this and I don't I wouldn't worry about it so much on a road bike because you tend never to break those posts on a road bike. They they especially like a carbon post will last forever, essentially. Um, but I have had people I know ask about, you know, they've had aero seat posts on their gravel bikes. Oh and they come in and are like, oh, I really want to put a dropper into this. Nope. Oh can't do it. Yeah, sorry.

Kristin 16:24

Now, speaking of gravel bikes, um, someone was asking me last weekend about suspension seat posts for gravel. Um, what do you think about them?

Steve 16:37

I think they're great.

Kristin 16:38

Okay.

Steve 16:38

Yep.

Kristin 16:39

Why don't I have one then? No, just kidding. Kidding. That's a good that's a good question. Um what's the I guess what what do they what's the benefit of them?

Steve 16:51

Well the benefit is they take a they they reduce impacts. Okay. Right? So and the more you do mixed terrain, yeah, we're gonna call it, right? So the more you're you're taking your gravel bike, you're really underbiking, you're going on single track and all that kind of stuff, okay, the the more you're gonna get a benefit out of a suspension seat post. I wouldn't really, I wouldn't really consider it if you're just doing gravel roads and dirt roads and so forth, but um, but on really rough terrain, yeah, they can take that. They can allow you to put power into the pedals while you're seated better because those hits that suddenly the rear wheel pops up, right? Okay, and it's gonna interrupt your pedal stroke where that can get absorbed and you can just put the power down better.

Kristin 17:38

Okay. Is there anything on and and well, and let's talk about gra gravel dropper posts. So, how many people are doing I don't see a demand for that at all.

Steve 17:49

Okay. Yeah. Um, and I don't see the need for that.

Kristin 17:53

Then you should be riding a mountain bike. Right.

Steve 17:55

And I and I there's very few times, I guess, in the past where I'm like, I don't see a need for that, and then I end up owning it and everybody else wants it too. This is one that I just don't I don't really see. There are, I'm sure there are people out there who ride specific terrain where they're like, oh, every time I go down this huge drop, uh, you know, drop in in this gully, yeah, you know, I'd love my dropper on a gravel. But it takes, you know, you you just you I don't see the key for it.

Kristin 18:25

We actually talked about it was a couple years ago, we had that one customer who came in and he had bought his wife an e-bike um that was not stepped through. Yes. And she was saying she could not get her leg over it. Yeah. She could not get her leg over when she was on it, she was fine. She could not get her leg over the saddle. Yeah, she was older. She was older. And we were talking about how maybe we could you could put a dropper on that just so that she could get on the bloody bike.

Steve 18:51

Yeah, and that so that's actually a really good um point about using a part for something that wasn't necessarily initially designed for. Right. Right? You know, uh dropper posts were like, well, let's make these let's make a post that goes down so people can get on their bikes easier. That wasn't the intent.

Kristin 19:10

Right.

Steve 19:10

But it it is a side benefit.

Kristin 19:13

Yeah, and in this case, her husband had got it was like a buy one, get one free bike. You would rather he had bought a bike that she could get on, right? A step-through. Yeah, but a dropper on a bike they had just bought was gonna be less expensive than buying another bicycle. Right, and the bike otherwise was fine for her.

Steve 19:32

Yeah, that yeah, that bike, yeah.

Kristin 19:34

Yep. Interesting.

Steve 19:36

Yeah, so so when you're thinking about upgrading to a seat post, definitely um, you know, you don't you don't go for just lightness. You want um well, ideally lighter and that has flex built in. And there are some brands that are just known to be more comfortable in terms of flex.

Kristin 19:53

Oh really? Like can I put you on the spot? Like what would be one that's like.

Steve 19:57

Oh, Richie is known for having more fleat posts.

Kristin 20:00

Yep. Is there a chance it can be too flexy? Something about the idea of my seat post flexing seems like a bad idea.

Steve 20:09

You might you might not want that in the professional racing scene depending on your discipline. Okay, but otherwise, it is not flexy in a way that you're going to feel spaghetti.

Kristin 20:21

Correct. Yeah.

Steve 20:22

So don't don't worry about that. Oh, and Ergon. So Ergon makes this really cool split seat post. I actually have it on my gravel bike. Okay. And that's that is also designed to even act flex even more than a solid carbon post cut. Oh, okay.

Kristin 20:37

Okay, which brings us to handlebars and stems. All right. You actually just got a new handlebar for your new bike, and you even said on the ride, oh, this is so much better.

Steve 20:46

So we can talk about that. So let's talk. We're gonna talk about both road and mountain.

Kristin 20:50

Yes.

Steve 20:51

All right, so um, should we start with stems first or handlebars? Let's start with stems. Okay. Okay. Stems are usually changed for sizing, like the angle of the stem, the rise of the stem, either up or down. Okay, and then the length of the stem. So that is really the reason most people change their stems out. It's just to size and fit the bike properly.

Kristin 21:15

Right.

Steve 21:16

And so on road bikes, that's typically all people are doing. They're not some people might upgrade a stem to the exact same size they have because they want the cachet of a certain brand on their for their stem.

Kristin 21:28

Or they want to be a big thing.

Steve 21:29

But they're really not getting any benefit out of it. Yes. There are stiffer stems, and and pro sprinters are known to want a very, very stiff stem. So when they're out of the saddle and you are yanking on those bars left and right, because you, you know, um on the on the bottom drops, you want that stem to be ultra stiff. That is not for the opposite. That is not a need for more normal people. Right. Exactly. Okay. All right. Um on mountain bikes, uh Stems are usually only upgraded for appearance. Now, there can be really cool stems for mountain bikes. They're CNC because they're short. So, because of that, they can be CNC machined. They do all kinds of cool anodized colors. It's it's a lot about the look. And I I have no problem with that. I like, right? Because I got that like red stem that I have put on the the one intense frames for sale, right? It looks really awesome. Um yeah.

Kristin 22:31

So there's a cool clingy stuff.

Steve 22:33

Um and then the only other thing to consider for stems is the sizing. So road bike stems and handlebars. So basically the clamp diameter that goes around the handlebar, yeah, that is all 31.8 on a road bike. Oh. All right. It used to be 26 years ago, but those don't exist anymore in road bikes. Okay. Um, so any road bike bar drop bar is going to fit all of those road bike stems. You don't have to worry about that clamp diameter. Yes. Unless, again, you have a really old road bike and you're trying to put a new bar on. Now, mountain bikes use the same diameter, but now they've been going to 35 millimeter. And so a larger diameter and larger diameter tubes mean stiffer.

Kristin 23:16

Okay.

Steve 23:16

Right? Now, here's the real consideration when if you're looking to upgrade your bar and stem, the 35 millimeter, because it's stiffer, right? It is actually, I find, and if you look in the professional World Cup scene, a lot of pros will find that a 35 millimeter 35 millimeter aluminum bar is too stiff. It is it is too much vibration coming through the bars. Okay. It read it increases hand fatigue over the long run and so forth. So now carbon bars, on the other hand, at 35 millimeter, they are they have been engineered and designed to make use of that, where they have extra strength in the middle, but then the carbon fibers are tuned as they go out to the outside to take advantage of the fact that they can now flex more on the outside while not losing the strength in the middle.

Kristin 24:11

Fancy.

Steve 24:12

Yeah. So um now they do make 31.8 carbon bars as well, but those are actually becoming harder to find than 35 millimeter carbon bars. So that's that is sort of my my recommendation. If you're going to stick with an aluminum handlebar, stay stay with 31.8. So the the and the stem has to be matching for that clamp diameter. And um, and if you're gonna go to a carbon bar, then you can go to 31 or to 35 millimeter.

Kristin 24:44

Okay.

Steve 24:45

Yeah, and just real quick on my handlebars on my bike. Uh well, let's let's we're gonna we just talked about stems. Well, I guess let's talk about handle, let's talk about handlebars.

Kristin 24:54

Yes, let's talk about that, and then I have some questions.

Steve 24:55

Okay. So for road bars, if you're looking to upgrade your road bar, it again, it's typically just for some people want a carbon bar. They're so going from aluminum to carbon. Okay, right, and carbon bars will um reduce the buzz of the road a little bit. Not you know, you put a carbon bar on and you ride around the neighborhood, you're gonna be like, well, that wasn't any different. Right. But it does over the long haul. Over over long, long rides, there is less hand fatigue with that. Okay. Typically. And so usually but usually you're changing your bar to get sizing. Oh, I want a wider bar, I want a narrower bar, I want a bar that has a flat top, which is somewhat for arrow gains, but those arrow gains are typically negated by the bar wrap on top, unless unless you keep that bare.

Kristin 25:44

Got it. Right?

Steve 25:45

But but some people like to like when they're climbing, like to put their hands on the top of the bars. Okay. I like to do that every now and then, and they kind of like the feel of a flatter um bar than rather than than round.

Kristin 25:56

Okay.

Steve 25:56

Um, and then on gravel bikes, a lot of times people will want a big flare at the at the drops. So the so the the the hoods are narrower than the drops. And and most people don't spend any time on the drops on a gravel bar, on a gravel bike, even on a road bike a lot nowadays. But what a flare does is it gets your hands wider, and now you're wider, so you actually have more stability. And that's why on a gravel bike, flare bars are popular because if you're going down a technical um bumpy hill, you can actually go down to the drops, and now your w your hand stance is wider and you're more stable instead of.

Kristin 26:33

And you can still, you can still you should still be able to reach the bottom of the brakes when you're in the body.

Steve 26:39

You actually have more grabbing power on your brake levers in the drops.

Kristin 26:43

And I will say I like the flare when your hands are on the hoods because that's how your hands are.

Steve 26:53

Well, you don't have to set so usually by putting a set of flare bars on a bike, I actually match the the angle of the hoods to the flare because I because and a lot of people are doing this nowadays where they're angling in their road bike hoods because it can create a little more natural of a wrist bend. Yeah. So um, and then on but on flare bars, that sort of angle of the hoods is more natural to the bar itself. Okay, yeah.

Kristin 27:18

Um, I have so many questions. Where should I start? Let's since we're just on gravel, let's talk about suspension stems.

Steve 27:26

Okay, yes. All right. So those have become popular. Yes. And I ride one, you ride one, and I think they do a tremendous job of of absorbing impacts. Right. Um, it's usually the the tiny uh flutter you know bumps and so forth like that. But even then, even now and then a good sort of jolt that you weren't expecting, it reduces the amount of movement of the front end of the bike, it reduces the amount of impact into your hands. And so I think they're just fantastic.

Kristin 28:01

Right. I think they I mean I think they help with control too. But yes, it's just it's so it's just the stem and it has elastomers in it. Yeah, like it has the right.

Steve 28:16

And then the eSilk, which has an elastomer that you can change at will without doing anything other than undoing a top bolt, pulling out the elaster, and putting a new one in.

Kristin 28:25

Right.

Steve 28:26

So, and that one also has a dial on top that's optional on one of the models where it will go from softer to firmer within the range of that particular softer, firm elastomer, whatever you've put in there.

Kristin 28:36

And I mean, I find even riding it on the road, it's not so cushy that it impacts your road riding.

Steve 28:43

It's just a slight it is, but they do feel different. So it is something you have to get used to when you first put on the bike. You know, it it's like, well, this is this is different. It feels softer and everything up front. There's a little bit of movement. Once you get used to it though, yeah, it's it's fantastic. I I could not have imagined doing the rift in Iceland without my suspension stem. Okay. That was a really rough track, and that was yeah.

Kristin 29:10

How much is a suspension stem?

Steve 29:11

They are expensive, they're around let's just say around 200. Okay. Yeah.

Kristin 29:16

Integrated stems and handlebars.

Steve 29:20

That is a great point to bring up. You're so means what?

Kristin 29:26

What did I just say?

Steve 29:27

So there's two things here. If you're if your road, actually your road or your mountain bike, yes, there are one piece bars and stems. So they all are just sort of formed together. And if you get that on your bike, you are this is the length of your stem, this is the width of your like with your bars on road. You can cut, you can cut down mountain bike bars if you need them shorter. Okay. Um, and if you want to change that, you have to change the entire bar stem system, which are very expensive. Yeah. Usually from three to five hundred dollars. Okay. So be careful if you get a bike like that, the bike feels good as it is. Um, a lot of companies who have that one-piece system have lower models that use a two-piece system. You could always go to that if you wanted to. Okay. But many times those stems are proprietary in that they are formed such that all of their special headset spacers and caps and so forth all fit around that. And if you were to change it, it would look kind of funky.

Kristin 30:36

I was gonna say, so you say you bought a Scott Spark that has the the one piece and all that, and you were like, Oh, I really let's say you wanted a riser bar on that piece.

Steve 30:46

Yes. Yeah, like can you do that? You can take that off. You would have to get Scott's stem to make to maintain the look, right? And you can get that in different lengths, okay, and then you could buy whatever bar you wanted to. Yeah.

Kristin 31:00

Got it. Um tell me about the bars on your uh intense spider.

Steve 31:06

Okay, so I put that together, was it the day before we left on our trip?

Kristin 31:12

She was really quick. Like, what do I have? What do I have?

Steve 31:15

And and and I had gotten a new stem for that bike, which was a 35 millimeter, realizing all of a sudden that I didn't have like um I was moving some parts over from another bike and so forth, but I didn't have any 35 millimeter bars. I had been running 31.8. Okay. And but I wanted to run this new stem, so I looked around the parts bins and I was like, oh, I've got this 35 millimeter bar. I'll put this on. It should be fine.

Kristin 31:44

Famous last words.

Steve 31:45

Right. And and this is where, well, so there were two things with it. One, that bike was a little bit different geometry, and I needed a little bit more rise.

Kristin 31:55

Okay.

Steve 31:55

So so that was one. There wasn't quite enough rise, and that was just sort of my um fit in terms of my um reached, not really reach to the bars, but drop to the bars. And then the second thing was is I really noticed how that thing was, it was stiff, way stiffer than the carbon bar had come off of on my past bike. And and I was feeling it in my hands back.

Kristin 32:20

Really?

Steve 32:21

So I was like, all right, this has to go. So I got the one up carbon bar, which is very interesting in that it it comes out of the stem, flattens to where they want sort of the flex zone, yes, and then and then goes back to round for the grips. Oh now, I that was uh and that was a 35 millimeter rise. That and then when I put that on the bike and rode the bike, yeah, it was night and day.

Kristin 32:42

That's what you said.

Steve 32:43

Night and day. It was not only was it just so much more comfortable that you could feel in your like you just like it took out all of that, those harsh vibrations in your hands. Yeah, but then the re the the rise just put me exactly where I wanted to be.

Kristin 32:58

So okay. Um, and in that, I will say on the mountain bike thing, I think an maybe underappreciated is just the grips themselves. Oh, the grips. Oh, I love you brought that up. Yes. Because I know you put on my bike different grips that are molded so that I can rest.

Steve 33:19

Yes. That is that is an I'm glad you brought that up because that is an awesome and cheap upgrade for people. So grips come in different diameters for one. So for smaller hands or larger hands, or smaller hands that prefer larger grips and that kind of thing. Yep. So now we're talking mountain bikes here right now. So the how your hand wraps around the grip can and your and your fingers, that itself can lead to more or less fatigue based on how the diameter of what you're having to hold on to.

Kristin 33:51

Yeah.

Steve 33:52

Um, and then and then many grips um or more are more cushioned than others. So that again increases comfort.

Kristin 34:00

Yeah, they're made with different materials.

Steve 34:02

Yep. Right. Now, lock-on grips, which basically have aluminum clamps that you uh turn a little screw and that locks the clean the bar the grip onto the bar.

Kristin 34:12

Okay.

Steve 34:12

I mean, those are the most popular, those are the most used. They are easy to take on and off, they're great, but because they have to use a plastic sleeve underneath, they have less cushion than other pure rubber grips. So just keep that in mind. Okay. So like ODI makes a really popular all-rubber grip that can be very cushion-y, um, but you you do need to put that on.

Kristin 34:35

And they come in fun colors.

Steve 34:36

And they come in. But I like and grips come in fun colors.

Kristin 34:38

But I like mine. What is mine again?

Steve 34:40

And then and then there's ergo grips. Okay so so I mean that's sort of a generalized term for the kind of grip that's not just round, it profiles and it's and it and it flares out to provide a bigger surface area for your palm. Yeah, and so that can also increase the surface area of where of your hand contact, which then can reduce fatigue. I I it does it can change on however dynamic you are on a mountain bike in terms of rolling your hands around based on the terrain. So some people don't like it for that reason. Yes. Um, but otherwise they can be fantastic for people.

Kristin 35:14

I like them.

Steve 35:15

Yeah. And then on road bikes, you can get much thicker bar tape. And the thicker bar tape um is just cushier and can reduce hand fatigue. Do you like it? And you have there's gel inserts that also can go under bar tape tape.

Kristin 35:30

Do you have a favorite bar tape brand?

Steve 35:34

I do have a couple favorite bar tape brands right now. All right. So the first one is Sec Levation. Okay. And they make they make really cool color fades. Yeah. Right. And I think color has come what color went out of bar tape for a long time. In the 80s and 90s, we were putting all kinds of weird colors on our bars. Not weird. Well, yeah, no weird. We all those like marble splashes and all that kind of stuff, right? And then color went away and it was like black and white for such a long time. And a few times red and blue. And sec ovation has now come in with that sort of grippier tape feel, and then they've got these really great all kinds of fades where it's black to start with, where it's gonna get dirty, but then as you come down and drops, it sort of fades into a nice color towards the end. So it's really cool. That's one of my favorites, and they come with lock-in um plugs. Okay. And then the other one for just a inexpensive, um nice bar tape is Planet Bike. I I do like their. So that's a synthetic cork type of feel tape. Comes with lock-in grips, uh, lock-in plugs, and you just like that's a and it's it has a what's called a like sort of a gel back.

Kristin 36:53

Okay.

Steve 36:54

So it's cushy. I do not recommend road bar tape that has an adhesive back. So so this is where typically you're gonna sort of peel off a strip and it's very and it's got um sticker basically on the back to adhere to the bar.

Kristin 37:10

Yep.

Steve 37:11

I like the ones that basically have some sort of tacky surface on the back. And any mechanic will tell you the nightmare of getting a bike in, they had to change the road to the bar tape on, and it and it comes off in just tiny little pieces chunks because it is it has been adhered to the bars for so long.

Kristin 37:32

You get a new handlebar.

Steve 37:34

It is just so frustrating, right? Whereas the ones that are just basically tacky on the back, they don't move, they don't shift around if it's wrapped right, and yet then they unpeel when it's time to change. They just unpeel beautifully and you put a new one on.

Kristin 37:49

Right. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Okay.

Steve 37:52

All right. Anything else on no, I think we we gotta move on.

Kristin 37:56

Good cover. Yes. All right, tires. We did get a comment on this from one of our one of our friends who said you spent an hour and a half talking about upgrades and you never talked about tubes, thorough thermoplastic polyurethane tubes. I think he specifically said, Oh, did he say that? Yeah, he was like, Okay, how did you spend an hour and a half talking? You didn't talk about tubes.

Steve 38:19

Tubes. You're right. So let's talk about tubes first because tubes are the least expensive upgrade you can make.

Kristin 38:26

Okay.

Steve 38:26

For gravel and mountain, in my opinion, tubeless is the only way to go. Yes.

Kristin 38:32

Now, if you're definitely gonna piss some people off the interest.

Steve 38:35

I am, yep. If you do go with tubes, then the TPU tube can be a nice way to go on gravel bikes.

Kristin 38:47

What is a TPU tube? And is are those the funny color ones down in our mud room?

Steve 38:52

Yeah. So with with tubes, you have your standard butyl rubber, the one that everybody knows, the black ones, they've been around forever. And butyl rubber tubes can last decades. Then you have latex. So latex saw a little bit of a surge because people were looking for lighter weight tubes. Because butyl rubber tubes weigh a lot.

Kristin 39:18

Okay, how much is a lot?

Steve 39:21

In a road tube, anywhere, the lightweight ones, and the usually labeled lightweight, they can be they can get down to about 100 grams. Okay. For a road. And for mountain, uh 250 grams. Okay. Yeah. Fine.

Kristin 39:36

Okay.

Steve 39:37

That's over something level of a half a pound. So late. So late a pound per bike on a mountain bike a lot times. No, I get it.

Kristin 39:43

So latex was came into play for the bike.

Steve 39:47

Uh for you it came into play because road riders were looking for something a little lighter. Right. There's also the friction between the inner tube and the tire inside, and that can lead to uh losses, power losses. Oh. Um so that is something that's always being um sought after uh faster rolling. All right. Um and then we have the TPU tubes. So those are relatively new.

Kristin 40:14

Thermoplastic polyurethane.

Steve 40:16

Yep. And they feel like plastic, and they know they kind of then they look like plastic. They are super light.

Kristin 40:22

Okay.

Steve 40:23

And they all but they have when they came out they did have some downsides, which a little bit have been addressed.

Kristin 40:32

Okay.

Steve 40:32

Well, one, they're insanely expensive.

Kristin 40:35

I was gonna say, let's it it almost doesn't matter what there was the problem, right? What like today if someone wanted a TPU uh tube. Tube what are the what are the downsides to that? So expense.

Steve 40:53

Expense. Yep. And the valves. So this is a the the valves were we're we're having a problem on these, and I believe most of the valve issue has been addressed. Okay. All right. And you also have to use if you're going to pat you can patch a TPU tube, like you can patch a butyl tube, but you do have to use a special TPU patch to do so. Okay. So just keep that in mind.

Kristin 41:18

How much does a TPU tube cost?

Steve 41:20

Well, if you get one of the sort of name brands, if you will, by Pirelli or Schwalbe or Silka or like I'm trying to think of other name up. Vittoria probably makes them or something. Okay. You can be talking forty dollars a tube. Now that just hurts my frugal heart.

Kristin 41:37

I was gonna say, because a regular tube is Yeah, let's call it 10.

Steve 41:43

Okay. Yeah. Um so now there are a host of brands out there that are much cheaper. Like you can find them on Amazon. Uh RideNow is one. You can get those even cheaper than Amazon if you sort of go direct to the to the source on certain places on the internet. The thing is, is that I it is hard to say whether the expensive brand tubes are better than the Ride Now, but I have read a couple of posts now of people who have been trying to compare, and they have had more issues with those cheaper ones.

Kristin 42:23

What is and and is weight really the only reason somebody would pick a TPU?

Steve 42:28

Well, so they are reportedly tougher. Okay. But a lot of these TPU tubes are made to be light, and they have negated the tough the toughness to part of that. So it's a balance. It's a balance. Oh, uh, tubelino. Tubolito, yeah, that that's another brand. So like they make different toughness ratings of their tire of their tubes, of their TPU tubes. And so they again, their their lighter ones don't seem to be kind of fragile. Okay. Um, and there's a lot of reports of people being like, I have a leak. Like it only lasts a day now. I can't find the leak anywhere. I've even done like putting it underwater. I can't find the leak. So there seems to be this mystery leaks on a lot of these TPU tubes as well. Okay. But the the tough ones that they market, which are still half the weight of a butyl tube, seem to to last. Okay. So, yeah. So we do have a few TPU tubes. They are only for our emergencies on our tubeless bikes. So what they are is the final backup for all else has failed. If all else has failed, the the correct valve out and put it in a tube. Okay. That's that's why we carry a few of those. Okay. Right. I do not otherwise use them normally. Now, one more thing on this road tubeless.

Kristin 44:00

Road tubeless. Oh yes, road tubeless.

Steve 44:02

There is this has always been the thing with road tubeless in me in recommending it. And it has always kind of been well, I do it, but is it for you? Yeah, right? Because it just takes tubeless with skinnier tires, with higher pressures, doesn't really mix all that well. It can be great, but it can also be frustrating.

Kristin 44:30

I mean, I will say my experience with this actually does go back to what I think it was the Linsky was tubeless road. And I I mean this is years ago now, so our patch kits were still we were still figuring out the patch kits, right? Like the the the bacon and everything.

Steve 44:47

The plugs and everything, yeah.

Kristin 44:48

Right. And so I got a I got a um hole in my road tire, and I had it was big enough that I had to patch it. But the problem was without the tread of the mountain bike tire, the bacon was just exposed and started to stick stuff and then like actually ripped out and I had to put it in again because at the time we didn't have great. I think we only had one kind of bacon and it didn't.

Steve 45:17

There weren't a lot of uh plug options.

Kristin 45:20

Yeah, and I remember at the time thinking this isn't necessarily better.

Steve 45:23

Right.

Kristin 45:24

Right? Because I just then I was paranoid about the plug pulling out for the rest of the ride versus Yeah, and they're yeah, they're harder to plug and everything.

Steve 45:34

So this is why I think with now TPU tubes, it that I think it's probably the better choice for most people for road. I I mean I rarely, rarely got a flat on the road w back in the days of just using tubes. Okay. So if you were to use tubes, uh even an expensive TPU tube now on your road, you don't have that, you don't have the hassle of adding sealant every now and then or cleaning out the mess and all that, and it's just you know, oh I got a you get a flat on the road, it's easy to change the tube, right? So I think for that reason, a lot of road probably should go to T TPU tubes for performance, performance road.

Kristin 46:18

Yeah. Okay, I'm I don't think I'm gonna let you talk about tires because I think that could be a whole episode. I know you, but I do have a question. Okay. Another upgrade question. Tire inserts.

Steve 46:32

Tire inserts. I just go in rogue. You did.

Kristin 46:37

I do uh where you could talk about tires for an hour and we will do an episode on tires. So I'm skipping you past that. All right, but I do have seen people ask about inserts, which are they go in the tires and they're like they're typically like foam rings.

Steve 46:54

Now you would not use these for road. Yes. Okay, they make them for gravel and they make them for mountain, and you're gonna see them mostly for mountain.

Kristin 47:01

Okay.

Steve 47:02

And there's a lot of brands that do this now. I just had a customer come in the other day. He had put in this new brand of insert.

Kristin 47:12

Yeah.

Steve 47:13

And it was crazy stiff. Like a lot of the foam ones you can you can squeeze like sideways.

Kristin 47:21

Are they like are they? I've never seen one. Are they like pool noodles?

Steve 47:24

They're like pool noodles. Okay. Yeah, they're like shape pool noodles.

Kristin 47:27

That's kind of what I imagine it when you want to hear it.

Steve 47:29

If you want to call it that, yeah. And it had no give sideways. So it was brutal to get the tire off. I mean, usually that makes getting the tire on and off very hard. This one was beyond anything I had seen.

Kristin 47:43

So you put it in the tire and then you put the tire on the wheel. Yes. And then you put air in the tire?

Steve 47:52

Yeah, and you and you're still running tubeless. Now, these are only for these are for still for these are tubeless only, if you will. Because you're not running an inner tube either.

Kristin 47:59

So, what's the point of them?

Steve 48:00

So the point is that basically you can run low pressures, and if you hit uh uh a sharp rock, which might normally push that tire in and either give you a sidewall split on on the rim or dent your rim, okay, it's going to save that. It's not, it's it's not gonna it's not gonna allow either. Got it. Right? That's why you're running inserts. So they're more run by aggressive riders who are doing big drops and hitting uh rocks at high speed um and want but want to run low pressures to get that big that better grip.

Kristin 48:38

Got it. Okay. Do you you don't really see that much, do you? You said that was your first? No, no, no, no.

Steve 48:46

That was the first of this particular brand. This is a new brand. Yeah. No, I I see them every now and then. Um I I don't run them on my mountain bike for a sort of sneaky reason, which is um, well, I keep my tire pressure at a point where I don't really bottom out into my rim. Yeah. Right. Because I watch that, but I also have these carbon rims with lifetime warranties. So if I were to ever break a rim, uh they're gonna replace it, and because and because I rebuild build wheels, I can just rebuild my wheel with it. So I don't even have the expense of that, really.

Kristin 49:24

But that is a perfect entree to the next one, which I'm a little nervous about again, time-wise, which is wheels.

Steve 49:31

All right. Well, I will try to be a little bit more brief on this and just give you why you should upgrade your wheels. Okay. I'm gonna give two quick stories.

Kristin 49:38

Thank you.

Steve 49:39

First one was back in the 80s when I had one of my first road bikes, and it was an entry-level, the entry-level Raleigh Technium.

Kristin 49:46

Oh, the one that's downstairs. The one that Anders has to stay. Yeah, I still have that frame. Yeah.

Steve 49:49

Okay. And that came with really basic wheels. And I can't remember actually what happened to the wheels, but I had to get new wheels. Okay. Okay. And I got this set of wheels which did not have all that great of hubs, but they were they were Mavic MA2 rims. Okay. A lot of people remember those rims. So this is this is not by today's standards. These were these wheels were heavy, I'm sure. Yeah, of course. Okay. Yes. But by in comparison to what I replaced, I don't know what the difference was, but it was probably a pound to two pounds, one to two pounds.

Kristin 50:28

These were the man.

Steve 50:29

And when I put those on, it was night and day difference. It was wow, this bike feels great. Okay. All right. Um, and so that that's a really nice story of weight. Um, the car and then the next story is about um my first carbon gravel set. So I built these in about 2016 and I bought these mountain bike rims. Um, I bought these carbon mountain bike rims, which were all, I think, were only 22 and a half millimeter internal diameter. And at the time, that was wide. That was a normal mountain bike rim. And I was like, and I when I when I built, I mean, like we everybody was still running 17, 18, maybe 19 millimeter rims, okay. Like internal on their on their gravel bikes and their cross bikes. Yes. And so I built these, like, okay, what's gonna happen here? Like, these are really wide, and and that was a revelation in terms of what it did to the to the tire, the air volume that I was that the air pressure I was able to go with, then it just sort of blew up it blew up the tire a little bit. They were ultra light, um, 1250 grams, I think. Okay. Um, without an exotic build. So that just made me say. So with wheels on road bikes, the only re the reasons you should upgrade for road bikes, arrow. Arrow, arrow, arrow is the one of the big ones. Okay. Okay, arrow means so much on a road bike, you will notice it.

Kristin 51:59

Um even if you're not racing.

Steve 52:01

Even if well, so if if you even if you're not racing, but if you're the kind of if you're a weekend warrior and you like to go fast and maybe you ride with a group every now and then, that kind of thing, yes, you will absolutely notice it.

Kristin 52:12

Okay, but I'm let me say all the all the PMC people that I ride with.

Steve 52:17

Yes.

Kristin 52:18

Would arrow wheels really make a difference for them? Okay. Nope. Yep.

Steve 52:23

No, you know, you need to, you certainly. But is it technically making a difference? Yes. Is it is it of any even noticeable for you for them if you're doing 12, 13, 14 miles an hour? No.

Kristin 52:36

If their bike came with say aluminum wheels and they went to carbon, not arrow, just carbon, would that be uh a noticeable upgrade for them?

Steve 52:50

So as long as it is a significant weight reduction, and that kind of goes back to that first Raleigh bike. The reason it felt night and day is because I dropped so much weight off of those wheels. And so they spun up faster. Like the bike felt livelier and nicer, right?

Kristin 53:10

Do carbon rims do any of the um eating of the vibrations like like other carbon parts that you've mentioned?

Steve 53:21

They can, but a lot of that comes down to the spokes.

Kristin 53:25

Oh, okay.

Steve 53:26

So a lot of time, a lot of times it's more the spokes than the rim itself. The rim comes into play. Yeah um deeper, deeper rims, which you can you can't really get true arrow without going carbon. Right. Because to get that kind of depth uh of aerodynamic rim, aluminum would be tank. You know, they just weigh so much. So so you have to go to carbon for that. There are shallow profile aluminum rims, yeah. And so they give you and they've they're labeled as arrow and they give you a little benefit, but that's just such a marginal thing that there's right.

Kristin 54:00

But you also mentioned the hub, right? Because when we're talking about a wheel, there's there's the rim, there's the spokes. And there's the hub. Yes. And some hubs are better than others.

Steve 54:13

One reason somebody might want to upgrade their hub is because depending on their weight and their power and that type of thing, there are some riders who tend to blow the paws on hubs.

Kristin 54:28

What's a paw?

Steve 54:29

The paw. So a paw is one mechanism of which the free hub works.

Kristin 54:33

Okay.

Steve 54:34

In terms of the ratchet mechanism, right? The drive forward.

Kristin 54:37

Oh, yes.

Steve 54:37

And so these are tiny little spring-loaded um steel wings, we'll call them, right? That snap up and down and contact a tooth ratchet inside. And so when you're coasting, those are basically just running, and that's what that's what makes the clicking noise. That's what makes the clock. Yeah, that's the noise. Okay. And then when you're going forward, the the sharp point of that tooth engages with the ratchet ring and then drives you forward. Those can chip, they can break the springs that keep them up and engaged, wear out, that kind of thing. And some people just kind of tend to break those.

Kristin 55:14

Yep.

Steve 55:14

So going to a um uh star ratchet ring system like DT Swiss has, and because DT Swiss's patent is up, a lot of companies copy now. Yeah, those don't have those pauls, and those can take all of that that power and torque and weight that otherwise. So that's a good reason to upgrade your hubs. The other thing would just be the smoothness. Cheap hubs on cheap bikes, out of the box, brand spanking new, will run rough. And there's not a lot of that mechanics can do many times to make those run smooth. It's just really low quality bearings and bearing surfaces.

Kristin 55:52

And at some point, it probably doesn't make sense to replace the hub on a low quality wheel, but it's just all these pieces, yeah, all these pieces impact the final wheel that you're buying. It does.

Steve 56:04

Yeah, if somebody came in and said, I need a new hub, right? You'd be like, okay, we have to re completely rebuild the wheel. That also means new spoke lengths because hubs uh have different shapes where the spokes start, so therefore the spoke length would be different. And so it's it's a lot of times, well, we may just look for a wheel for you. If somebody comes in with a really nice carbon rim, yes, but for some reason wants a different hub, we can yeah, okay, now let's let's rebuild your nice carbon rim. It's worth it, but like the cost. That's that can be worth it. Yeah, absolutely. Different. Yes. Okay.

Kristin 56:38

All right. I'm gonna skip you, sorry, through a couple of these because we did talk about them later.

Steve 56:43

Oh, wait, I want can I go on one more thing on on ramp on wheels? Absolutely. I seem to be getting a lot of customers who ask about can they fit this wide tire on their existing rims? Because they think their rims are too narrow. And I don't know where this came from. This must be something that the industry has pushed like all the rims have gotten wider, right? And that is for the most part a good thing. Um, we have pushed into too wide in some cases, but don't get tricked by this. And I want to say there's a great graph by WTB on their website that shows sort of all right, here's your here's your internal rim width, and you can look across that, and then my tire width is this, and then it'll say whether it's it's acceptable, optim, or optimal. Or just don't or don't don't combine those two. And people will be amazed, I guess, nowadays, that that you can put on very wide tires on quite skinny rims. Okay. Right.

Kristin 57:47

We'll put a link in the show notes. Um, that actually reminds me of a conversation from yesterday, which was how wide your tire could be for a specific bike. And he was like, Well, the manufacturer says it can be this wide, but but look, I can fit more than that. And what is the yeah, what is the like, where is it that they're just from a legal standpoint saying we're not supporting more than this?

Steve 58:14

Oh I'm saying you you need the clearance. Now, most of the time, tire clearance, the problem comes right down at the chainstays on the sides there. That's usually the pinch point for tires. Sometimes the fork, but it's almost usually that that spot down there. And you do need some clearance there. There is gonna be a little bit of wheel flex, especially when you're out of the saddle climbing. And you also want uh mud clearance, especially on gravel and mountain bikes. And so, yes, a lot of bikes you can push a couple millimeters bigger than they say the max is. Not always, but many times you can. Okay. Um, and the thing is, is there's variations on tires. So while a company might say the max is 700 by 40, right? You might say that might be the case. You can't fit a maxis 40, you know, 45 in there, or let's let's say with a company that does like 42, right? Like so Teravel or something like that. Um, but one company's 40 might on this the one on the same rim might measure 39 and a half, and another company's 40 might measure 31 and a half or something like that.

Kristin 59:27

So your experience may vary.

Steve 59:29

Your experience may vary, yes.

Kristin 59:31

All right, what do you want to talk about next? Drive trains. Drive trains.

Steve 59:34

Um we talked a lot about drivetrains in the last episode, so let's just um let's just go over some of the easy the easy upgrades here. Okay, and one that's very much overlooked is the cables. So on this is for mechanical drivetrains, yes, this is for both road, mountain, gravel, whatever. Yes, a lot of um issues that can be can happen with a road drivetrain come with the friction of the cable. Yes, and and sometimes it doesn't present itself as a problem, but when I get a bike on the stand and I push that shift lever, I go, oof, like that's just not that is hard.

Kristin 1:00:18

Well, and that's actually to go back to the the guys who are like I can't believe we're complaining about pressing a button. You're not pressing a button, you're pushing a cable actuated lever. Yes, right?

Steve 1:00:32

And there's a lot of force into your thumb to push that lever even hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of times in one ride.

Kristin 1:00:41

Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, back to so, so, so sometimes you're on it and like can people get used to it? Like they've just been pushing it so long and they don't notice that it's been getting harder and harder. But then when you get to it, you're like, Well, that's harder than it should be.

Steve 1:00:55

Yes.

Kristin 1:00:56

Okay.

Steve 1:00:56

So yeah, I, you know, there are I really want that shifter to feel light action, right? And that is just gonna make the the experience so much better. At some point, there's so much friction going on that it actually affects the adjustment of the derailler.

Kristin 1:01:13

Oh, okay.

Steve 1:01:13

Because the spring in the derailleur can now not overcome the friction in the cable, and so it doesn't quite shift down properly, right? So um or shift up technically. So um there are different cables out there, right? You have your standard on basic bikes, they come with these horrible cables that are that you'll you'll actually also like like you'll see rusting, right? Yes. I don't know why they do that. So the the basic cable is stainless steel, right, and works quite well on almost every bike. Okay. All right. But the more bends there are in the housing, the more friction you're introducing.

Kristin 1:01:56

You mean the number from from where the brake is to the shifter is to where the shifting happens. Right. The number of zigzags it needs to get through.

Steve 1:02:07

Every single, every single section that is not perfectly straight is introducing friction into the system. Okay. Uh mountain bikes will often have full-length housing so that the housing goes all the way from the shifter to the driller. Road bikes usually have brakes in it, so they'll they'll have like bare cable running inside the frame and then then picks back up onto housing and so forth. So that can reduce the friction. Um but road bikes, especially now with all of the into more integration into the into the system, up into the head tube, or just more interesting shapes in the in the frames and so forth, they have just introduced more and more and more friction.

Kristin 1:02:50

Yes.

Steve 1:02:50

I mean, if you go back to the day where you had Shimano STI shifters where the housing came out of the hoods, was exposed, right? Didn't go under the handlebars, right? And then that stopped on the down tube of the frame, and then you had one final loop of housing at the end. Uh you ride one of those bikes nowadays, and you're like, oh, we we kind of lost something from those days. In the simplicity equaled, the simplicity equaled such smooth light action shifting. Right. It's fantastic.

Kristin 1:03:22

It must be easier to work on, too.

Steve 1:03:25

Oh, it was way easier to work on. Way um, so there are um other cables to choose from, though. So Shimano has two, right? One's called OpiSlick and it has sort of this green color. Okay, and the other one is a um polymer one. The OpiSlick, don't bother. Oh, I have seen zero improvement using that over just a quality stainless steel one. Okay. All right, so and it they're more expensive. And like the polymer one, I think it's 16, 17, 18, right? So it's an expensive cable. Yes. And but the the more routing you have through through frames, like it is amazing what that cable does. So I will put that into road bikes often. Now that is spec as standard by Shimano on like Altegra and Dura A stuff. Oh, okay. Right? But then it gets replaced over the years by somebody who just replaced it with standard, whatever. And but if I go back and I put that in, or I'm noticing how how hard it is to shift their bike, and I put that in, the the improvement of the of the action of the shifter is remarkable. Um, polymer, those polymer cables do shed, so they'll look shh sort of fluffy, right? Over time.

Kristin 1:04:47

They're so fluffy.

Steve 1:04:48

Yeah, so they do wear out. That coating wears out and they do need to get it changed. Okay. But with Shimano, Shimano road shifters eat cables anyway, so you do have to keep up on changing those out, um, you know, depending on your mileage. So, and then the final one is that there were there were Teflon coated cables. So Jaguar made those, and then SRAM rebranded them as SRAM made by Jaguar. Those are gone.

Kristin 1:05:12

Oh.

Steve 1:05:12

And I think because they're gone because of the PFAC in the Teflon, right? There are still a couple companies out there, small companies that make them. They do work really well. I highly recommend them for mountain bikes, but they they have since replaced those with what they call slick polished. So they try to take a stainless steel cable and then polish it smoother to make it slicker. Oh, that worked. It does. It's better. It's not as good as the Shimano Polymer ones. I don't think it's as good as the tough, the old Teflon ones, but it is it is good. Yeah. Um, so I will use those in certain cases. Um, you can't use Shimano Polymer ones in SRAM Mechanical Road. The the the bend of the cable is. Too much. You can't get them in there. Don't try it. Don't try. You can use Shimano Polymer ones on SRAM mountain bike if you want to. That works just fine. Oh.

Kristin 1:06:10

Okay.

Steve 1:06:11

All right. So that's that's just a great and relatively inexpensive upgrade. It will dramatic can dramatically improve your shifting feel.

Kristin 1:06:20

So the cable thing, that simplicity and the difference in what I would look at is just the same cable, I think, is a good uh next question, which is about brake pads, which are the and that there are different differences in brake pads too, right?

Steve 1:06:36

Yeah, so so moving moving to brakes. Now with road, you tend you just don't you don't upgrade your so the the shifters and the brakes are the same thing. Right. Anything that's hydraulic has is you you're not changing those. One, they're super expensive. They're they're they're the speeds for your system. The braking is not going to change there. We're gonna talk about the pads and the rotors though next, right? So there's no need to upgrade that part otherwise. Okay. Okay. On mountain bikes, because the brakes are separate. Um, I just want to mention one thing. Most people are upgrading for power more power. Okay. But I want to mention one thing about mountain bike brakes, and that is the lever pull force. So, sort of like the shifter force we just talked about. This is an underlooked item. So, um, so for instance, like SRAM codes, a lot of people liked their power. I thought they were horrible because the amount of finger force it took to pull those brakes was horrendous, in my opinion.

Kristin 1:07:33

Okay.

Steve 1:07:34

Right. Um, so and this can really affect the longer you ride, or the smaller your hands, or the younger you are, whatever. You know, there's very variations. You want an easy-to-pull brake lever that you can operate with one finger. Yes. Right?

Kristin 1:07:49

That's the big thing, is the one finger.

Steve 1:07:51

The one finger, right? Um, and you know, even now the kids, the kids on the on the NEYC team, right? Yeah, you ask them, and and they're like, oh yeah, I pull with two fingers, because they don't have the finger strength yet to pull with one finger, right? Uh the right brake they probably would. So, anyway, that's just something to consider for a brake upgrade. So, let's talk about the the pads and rotors because these are relatively inexpensive upgrades that can make a massive difference to your current brake set. Okay. All right, no matter what type of bike. Um, number one, rotors. So you can mix different brands of rotors with whatever brakes you have. That is a little bit of a misconception, I guess. Right? Every brand will say we optimized our rotors to work with our brakes and so forth and so on. Yada yada yada. Okay. Um, but I want to make a couple uh point out a couple ones. So Shimano brake rotors, they have their entry-level series, uh, like the first three, I guess. They will have this little thing, it'll be it'll be written right on the rotor. It says resin pad only. Those rotors are not great and they do not provide a lot of stopping power. Um, yeah, they're they're just I I don't know what they're doing with that steel, but it's not good. And the reason they say resin pad only is because if you were to put in uh well, brake pads, disc brake pads, we're gonna talk about here. Um they come in what's called resin or organic, and then you have metallic and then sintered, and and those metallic and sintered pads, they can be very, very abrasive on brake rotors. Okay, right? So they have more stopping power typically, and they last longer in grit and mud, but those those entry-level Shimano brake rotors, the the steel is not capable of withstanding that kind of abrasion abrasiveness. So that's why they say resin pad only. At the same time, they just they never seem to stop very well. So I they can and I've seen it, but typically that is overall not great. So that is one reason to upgrade. Maybe you want to upgrade those rotors. Okay. Um, and then and then pads. So stock upgrading your stock brake pads, depending on the bike. High high level parts will typically have quite good pads. Yes. But this is where the mid and lower level can often benefit from upgrades. So you might go from organic or resin pads to metallic pads because you're finding you ride your grava bike in the mud all the time and you're finding you're wearing out brake pads. Yes. We have been to rainy, muddy events where people were running through even new sets of organic pads over the course of the ride. Yes, because it was that completely through the muddy. Completely through the pad, right? Yep. So, um, and that's where a sintered pad will last longer. Okay. Right.

Kristin 1:10:53

So, this is where you want to talk to your mechanic or when you're buying a pad, think about the conditions you're riding in.

Steve 1:10:58

Yes. Um, then there are also there are also pads. If you're looking for just raw power, yeah. Um, there are pads out there that will give you significantly better power than your pads. They actually tend not to be, they tend to be a sort of an organic mix. Um, but and they won't last as long, right? Because you're looking, you're you're going for power over longevity. Right. Right. But they are they can make a night and day difference. Um and the final, well, the the the other big completely overlooked point of disc pads and rotors is the bed-in. And I cannot stress this one enough, right? Yeah. So bed-in. So when you think about a disc brake clamping onto a s to a steel rotor, it is it's not the pad pushing against the steel that's breaking you. It's the it's the material in the pad pushing against material on the pad that you've deposited onto the steel rotor that creates that friction boundary.

Kristin 1:12:05

Okay.

Steve 1:12:05

Right. And I think this is why those entry-level Shimano ones, I don't think they they pick up a lot of that material, and they don't so that's why they I tend they don't think they break as well. Okay. But when you get when you get new pads, you need to bed them in. And that generally means riding the bike up to speed, and then braking pretty hard. Yes. Do not come to a full stop. Because you don't want to basically deposit a a stop ridge of trying to deposit material along. Evenly along the rotor. The rotor. Correct. And you have to do this a dozen, at least a dozen times, right?

Kristin 1:12:47

Back and forth in your yard. Yep.

Steve 1:12:49

And there are machines now that will bed in like that. They're now they're thousands of dollars, and shops are going to start to have them, but um, they'll just do it in the shop and so that you don't have to go outside with it. Interesting. If you you you generally don't want to say, have a brake system where you've been using organic pads on these rotors and then just throw in metallic pads and use it on the same rotor. Right. You generally don't want to do it. People do it all the time. In some cases, it can work just fine. I like I don't want to be too rigid on that point.

Kristin 1:13:26

But and when people complain that their brakes are squealing, squeaking, whatever, that's often because the pad has been if they're squealing all the time.

Steve 1:13:39

Yes, not just like Yeah, it if so so moisture and like high humidity and that kind of thing, or even going through a puddle, you might get a little bit of of squealing out of your brake and then just goes away as it dries up. Don't worry about that. Okay. Um, and also don't work worry about sort of if if you're breaking, even in the dry, what's called turkey warble. And that can be sort of a s this funky sound out of your brake. That is sort of a function of the cutouts and the holes in the rotor and sort of how it sounds going against the pad. But you're like, oh, my power's great, but they sort of make that that weird noise. Yeah, don't worry about it. It's not a squeal, it's just sort of a yes, metallic-you know, we all know we all know the squeal. So, right. Now, the squeal, if it squeals all the time, it typically means you got something oily on your pads. Okay. And you'll see people all over the internet doing things to clean them up. I I don't want to necessarily talk for other shops. I I don't even bother anymore in the shops. We just replace. If you want to try to clean them up, go ahead because it's worth it might be worth your time. It is not worth the shop's time to clean. Like you can, you can you you're degreasing them and decreasing them and then sanding down the surface and deglazing them and then cleaning them again, and then you gotta put them back in the bike, then you gotta take it outside, and you gotta test it. Right? Oh, now it's still making it, right? You just you just took the cost of new pads right there, right? So um you'll see now you'll see people with blowtorches trying to bake out the foil. That's that's typically ruining the pad material. Don't yeah, and so unfortunately, it it is surprising. You would think you'd be able to clean them up, and it just doesn't seem to work 90% of the time. So um even even all the specific cleaners out there that say disc pad anti-squeal cleaner and that stuff, yeah.

Kristin 1:15:31

Okay, I can give you two more minutes. What else do you want to talk about?

Steve 1:15:35

All right, let's just talk about all those little marginal gain upgrades that people do all the time. Sure. All right. So one is bolts. So people will buy titanium bolts or colored bolts or that kind of thing.

Kristin 1:15:47

Yes.

Steve 1:15:47

Uh that's not gonna do anything for you other than make you feel happy. This is this is I have done everything to my bike I can think of. What else can I do?

Kristin 1:15:56

I love I love all the color upgrades.

Steve 1:15:58

Oh, I love color upgrades. I am always I'm always here for color upgrades. Um, the next would be ceramic bearings. Again, marginal gains. This would be ceramic bearings in your bottom bracket, in your pulley wheels, in your hubs. That's typically about it. Um, you know, that are supposed to just spin faster and smoother. Um, and those can be very expensive. And but again, if that's what you have left to do on your bike, you might want to go for it. But it is, are you saving watts? Yes. According to tests, you are, but very, very tiny marginal gains there. Um pulley wheels, people upgrade their their pulley wheels, their jockey wheels to bigger and their derailer to bigger ones. The larger they are, the less the chain has to bend going through them, the less the chain has to bend, the less friction there is. So again, another little marginal gain. Um, and of course, the I guess the TPU tubes, right? Um specifically on road bikes. If you go from butyl to TPU, that's a that's a bit of an upgrade and a little bit of a marginal gain there.

Kristin 1:17:04

I mean, I think you know, the other thing we could do a whole show on, we talked about it, we never got to it, was saddles, right? Like these saddles are we're swapping them out all the time. They're they're your main connection to the bike. Yep. And I think it's an undervalued upgrade. Like it's an easy, an easy upgrade to add a lot of comfort. But again, what's normal? What's normal pain? What you know, which I would say none. Um right, right.

Steve 1:17:33

So yeah, I think there's and then and then you know, yeah, and then we were just talking about colors, but you know, a lot of people are just upgrade things for colors and shapes and brands. Sometimes you want the brand cachet. So I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, and there's a there's a great way to go. There are whole component companies who have built their little empires just because they came out with colors. That's it.

Kristin 1:17:57

Yeah, color because I mean Wolftooth, um I've gotten cool little stem caps from Ostroy. Like, there's so many different places you can get really cute things to personalize the bike to yourself. And as I said, this should be fun. This is not you know it's not serious business, man. Bikes make your bike, your bike can make you smile. Exactly. Right? Okay, so that's it. We're wrapping this up. We do have one piece of news, which is um I am signed up for uh the summer PMC. I'm doing it with my friend Nancy and hopefully our daughter Sophie. We're gonna do the 50 mile Sunday ride. Um, I'm going for the trifecta this year. So I've done winter cycle, I'll do summer cycle, summer PMC, and then hopefully um if schedules allowed, winter um unpaved. So that's all three. And if you donate, I'll send you a sticker, but also I'm I made this thing, this this piece of art that's a good one.

Steve 1:18:58

Yeah, she's holding up her handmade embroidery.

Kristin 1:19:01

And I am gonna give it to somebody who donates to one of our to one of our um funds this year. Yeah. So give me something to channel. Anyway, that's uh that's it. We need to wrap this up because as I said, I am running out of disk space. Okay. Ready? Cycling together with Kristen and Steve is a production of Seed the Bike Guy, an independent bicycle shop in eastern Massachusetts and Sunday marketing.

Steve 1:19:25

If you like the show, please leave a review or share with a friend for show notes, links, or to leave a comment, question, or topic, suggestion, visit cycling together.bike.

Kristin 1:19:33

You can follow the shop on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. Just be nice at see the bike guy.

Steve 1:19:39

Alright, we will see you next time. Thanks. Bye-bye.