How NEYC Gets More Kids on Bikes

We are joined by Kelly Catale, Executive Director of New England Youth Cycling (NEYC) a "youth" development organization that supports racing and riding for kids in grades 5-12, plus a development riding program serving grades K-5. During our conversation, we discuss the basics - teams, practices, equipment - as well as how NEYC is helping kids and families build community and find the joy in racing and riding.

We also discuss the roll advocacy organizations such as MassBike play in the development of reasonable bike laws and how cyclists can help those efforts to avoid legislative overreach.

Thank you JTracy for the cover photo, and JTracy & Steve the Photographer for photos in the video version.

Transcript

Kristin 0:04

This is Kristin .

Steve 0:05

And I'm Steve, and you are listening to Cycling Together, a podcast about all things bikes, riding, and riding together.

Kristin 0:12

This week we have a long interview. Settle in.

Steve 0:15

Long show.

Kristin 0:16

With the executive director of New England Youth Cycling, Kelly Catale. Would you like to share with our audience some of her impressive stats?

Steve 0:26

She is a former professional off-road cyclist. She raced for seven or for four years with seven cycles. Yep. She is a three-time U.S. national team member for the Marathon mountain biking team. She's a three-time USA national champion in single speed mountain bike.

Kristin 0:45

Which seems like its own level of insanity.

Steve 0:47

Right. And she's the founder of Kelly Cat Development, a junior development team for girls.

Kristin 0:52

And because we contain multitudes, and I like to cyberstalk people, I discovered she also holds a bachelor's in biomedical engineering from Bucknell University and a master's in engineering management from University of Idaho. Those are all skills that she definitely applies to her job. Wow. Yeah, she's she's impressive. And and she's just a complete badass who's bringing all those legit credentials to NEYC and as well as Joy. And we'll be talking about that. But first, we're gonna talk about briefly the insane bike laws that have started to pop up. Yes. First in New Jersey. Yep. And more recently.

Steve 1:36

Well, the law it is now law in New Jersey. New Hampshire is a proposal.

Kristin 1:40

Right. So New Jersey just passed a law that requires all e-bikes have to be licensed, have insurance.

Steve 1:49

Insurance like a motor vehicle.

Kristin 1:50

Which is not does not exist. That's not insurance that exists. And riders have to wear motorcycle style helmets. DOT approved helmets. Okay, so that's that's number one. The proposal in New Hampshire is for all bikes to have to pay a $50 registration fee. That is all bikes, when I mean all bike toddler bikes, beginner bikes, e-bikes, non-e-bikes. If it rides on a municipally funded bike path, trail or roadway, or in any state parks. So we're talking about these because this is these are gonna have a huge impact on cycling if they pass. If this one passes if this one passes.

Steve 2:34

Massive. This this can't this can't stand. And I think as you said, this is HB 1703. I think you said anybody can comment. Is that correct? I have to go in there and comment.

Kristin 2:43

Yeah, by the time this posts, it will have already had its Oh, the the comment periods closed. Yeah, that already have had its the larger point is there is wild legislative overreach happening in in every state, or at least they're talking about it largely because of e-motos, right? And or just money grabs, who knows? Um, and they are gonna have a huge impact if they pass, they're gonna have a huge impact on kids even riding bikes.

Steve 3:17

Can you imagine a family of uh uh five, you know, two adults and three kids and needing to spend two hundred and fifty dollars every single year? No, that's per bike. Yes. So it you're you know, the the mother and the father are also enthusiasts with a few bikes. You you you what five, six hundred dollars a year to register your bikes?

Kristin 3:35

We'd be bankrupted. Yeah. So it's they're largely unenforceable. I mean, who's the police are gonna be out there dealing with this? You don't have better things for them to do. It's gonna kill tourism in any of these areas.

Steve 3:48

Well, we do know in New Jersey that you couldn't say bring your own e-bike in there and not have to follow their rules. We know that that you would you would have to.

Kristin 3:55

Right.

Steve 3:56

I don't know what the situation is in New Hampshire. I think probably only for owners in New Hampshire.

Kristin 4:01

How do you enforce that? Person on bicycle. Like there's there's no you know, so so really the question is uh what should we as riders be doing about the fact that whatever state you're in, some crazy ass law might be coming up.

Steve 4:20

So we're gonna do that. When state laws get approved, then more states can follow. Right. Um, so yeah, so what can we do? Well, we need to support our local bike advocacy advocacy groups.

Kristin 4:32

So, yes, so I was just at the Mass Bike annual meeting yesterday. This was definitely the talk or one of the talks of the meeting. And they, you know, the nice thing about Mass Bike is they have the relationships with legislators and they can look at some of these laws and say, let's not do that. Like they can use these examples of what not to do.

Steve 4:55

One of their primary roles is lobbying the state legislature to pass good, reasonable cycling laws, such as our four foot to pass law that we had enacted a few years ago. Good job, Master. Right.

Kristin 5:10

One of the things somebody was saying was it's interesting that they're trying to do this now in January when the cyclists aren't necessarily paying attention. You know, they're not out there on the trails. But once the word started getting out, uh it was everywhere, suddenly everywhere. I saw it once and then I saw it everywhere. NEMBA has has filed a petition. Yep. Um, so that's the other thing is comment, right? If you see something happening in your state or a neighboring state, the point is get involved. Yeah, get involved, support your the point is get involved, support your um bicycle advocacy groups if you have them, join, give money, and keep an eye out. And if you see something sketchy, spread the word, comment. Yep, because that's how we get these things.

Steve 5:56

Yeah, public outrage stops these things.

Kristin 5:59

Yes. Anyway, all right. Well, since I said this is a long interview, we are going to take a break and we'll be back, or I'll be back with Kelly. I am here with Kelly Catali, executive director of New England Youth Cycling, otherwise known as N A N E Y C. I'm still I'm still lobbying for nice. Thank you for coming to my house. Of course. Yeah. So why don't we start with the basics, which is what is what is NEYC?

Kelly 6:29

NEYC is a at its core, it's a youth development organization that helps kids grow and learn through the sport of cycling. There are a lot of different mediums for growing and learning about yourself and being part of a meaningful community and learning how to push your limits. And we choose to use the bike. And our bread and butter as an organization is a six-race spring mountain bike series that probably could have been strung together in a different series of words, but it's fine.

Kristin 6:58

No, those words work, those words work great. Let's start with the the races and the race format. So these are cross-country races. Yes. We're really going to try to focus on the parent here who maybe doesn't know anything about mountain biking or mountain bike racing. So when you tell a parent cross-country racing, what does that mean?

Kelly 7:18

Yeah, uh, it's a great distinguishing point because when people think of mountain biking, they think of the extreme Red Bull like going off 20 foot drops, and they're like, no way you have kids doing that. Yeah. No, it's not that. We don't often leave the ground. Uh so cross-country mountain bike racing, think of a few miles loop in the woods. You have to pedal up the hills and down the hills. Well, maybe you coast down the hills. Yes. So the it's it's all the things you're riding over rocks and roots, fire roads, single track, and the format of the race is dependent on the category. So you might have one time around a longer like a loop or up to four times, depending on what category, age, all of that.

Kristin 8:04

I've read a lot about NEYC. I listened to some interviews, and I think we we focus a lot on the races, but between the races, we have practices, right? And and which I think is like where it is for anyway. That's where the real joy for me is, is in the practices. So um, what does that look like for if somebody again parents are saying I'm signing my kids up for what? What would what does the schedule for practices look like?

Kelly 8:31

Yeah, great question. The practices for teams. I mean, we we have now 47 teams in the league. Wow, as of uh last week. And every team does it a little differently. Yeah. But when we are in the height of the season, teams will practice two to three times a week, depending on the team. Yep. And they choose to format their practices however they want. It depends on the head coach's preferences, but also the way they've seen practices work well. The ultimate goal is to help the kids continue to grow their skills and maybe more importantly, to build community in your local region. Yeah. These kids are all from a centralized region around them. We define our teams by zip codes. Okay. So the practices might look like starting out with some drills for skills, cornering, how to use braking well, stopping, you know, going up a hill, down a hill. It's a lot of different skills. And then usually applying those skills out on the trails. So they'll go for group rides. And the teams will break up into groups if it makes sense and there's enough people at practice. And there's always two usually adults on a group ride, too. You have someone who's like leading and then someone who might be sweeping. And for those who don't know, sweeper is the back of the caboose.

Kristin 9:49

No man left behind.

Kelly 9:51

No man, no woman, no rider, left behind. No rider left behind. Yes.

Kristin 9:56

Um, so we skipped a little bit like right into it. So we talked about you just mentioned the teams. And how old are the kids in these teams for NEYC?

Kelly 10:09

We have two different types of teams. One is the one that's been around the longest, race teams. And race teams are for kids in grades five through 12. So you have a little bit of middle school and maybe elementary and then high school. And a few years ago, we started a development team, and that is for kids in grades K, so kindergarten up to fifth grade. So adorable. They are so awesome. And honestly, really amazing to see the growth in those kids and to be able to see them go from timid, maybe not very experienced, you know, they've just learned how to ride a bike, and now they're out crushing roots and rocks. And it's not about trying to go the fastest or trying to go off drops or anything. It's more about building confidence and competency so they can feel empowered to do hard things. Yeah.

Kristin 11:00

I think that's an important question too, is I mean, with the the Devo team, as you said, they may have just learned how to ride a bike. So I don't think anyone expects them to have experience. But for the grades five through 12, there's no tryout there either, right? Like you can you don't necessarily have to have experience mountain biking or mountain bike racing to decide you want to join an NEYC team. Correct.

Kelly 11:26

Yes. All you need, we do require a bike. You need workable equipment, and it can't be something that's going to fall apart while it gets a little jumbled around on a trail. We ask that that you have some competency pedaling a two-wheeled vehicle.

Kristin 11:41

So we're not teaching you how to ride a bike. Correct.

Kelly 11:44

Yeah, we're not going through the steps to do like the balance bike thing. Yes. Yep. So there is some level of expectation around competency, but you don't have to have ridden in a race before. You don't have to have ridden fast. You could be relatively beginner and excel. And there are no tryouts. Uh, there's nothing around needing to meet some sort of skills expectation or experience expectation. And that applies to our coaches too, which is pretty rad.

Kristin 12:12

Oh, yeah. We're definitely gonna talk about that. Coaches and the parents and the equipment. But one other thing um on the racing versus practicing, there's not even a requirement to race.

Kelly 12:22

Correct. Most teams, and it's up to them, most teams have a requirement to go to at least one race. Usually it's about one, might be two. But go to might mean go cheer on your teammates, go hand them a water bottle in the feed zone, go out in the middle of the woods and cheer them on when they're feeling they're tiredest and no one else is around, right? That means go to a race. It doesn't mean you have to compete. Although we find that most kids who go and see the excitement and the fun of race day, which we can talk about race day and the nature of it. Yeah. But when they see it, they're like, ooh, I want to at least try that once. Yeah. And once is usually all it takes, right? Yeah.

Kristin 13:00

Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. No, it's hard to resist. Let's talk about the the coaches. Yeah. Because they're all volunteers.

Kelly 13:07

Yes.

Kristin 13:08

Right. Which is pretty amazing.

Kelly 13:10

Uh it gets even more amazing. Okay. So the coaches are all volunteers and they do this. They're all, I mean, they're they're teachers and engineers and employees of the government. Like, there's all kinds of styles of people who who coach and they bring a lot of awesome energy. They are the magic, the lifeblood of the league. Last year we had almost a thousand kids. It was 974 kids registered for the league, and we had 506 coaches. That is better than a one-to-two ratio.

Kristin 13:42

Because it's not enough to just say, yeah, hey, I have a bike and I'll help. Right. We have, as coaches, had to go through there's various training. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Kelly 13:53

Yeah, absolutely. The coach licensing system for NEYC has three different levels. And most of our coaches are level one. That's the entry level. And it's those coaches are just as important as the level three coaches. Right. There's there is no, in my mind, there's no value difference because every single person is a role model and a leader and an in an influence on the team that has a interaction with a lot of different kids.

Kristin 14:20

Right.

Kelly 14:20

So level one requires it's about two hours of work. And what I mean by that is you have to go through a registration portal, you have to go through the background check process, which has its, you know, many steps of answering lots of questions. And assuming the background check passed, and then you've done the other pieces, right? Then you can become a coach. The other pieces are there's two online trainings. They're safe sport, so around abuse prevention for youth, and then around concussion. And we require that if you are a coach, you must have those trainings. And then there's an intro training for NEYC. And it's actually it's been revamped this year, and it's mostly just me talking about this, essentially. It's an it's like an eight-minute video, and it's me explaining the licensing system because there have been so many questions, and I feel like the best thing to do is just break down the information an amount of uh facts and slides and things that make it easy to understand. Yeah. And that those four requirements, so it's the background check, the two online trainings, and then that one video, together you can become a level one coach. Yep. And those basics actually give you the coach confidence to be able to be on the trail and answer questions or deal with something difficult, or at least help detect when something's off. And then the more experienced coaches can step in if needed.

Kristin 15:44

And then, I mean, the coaches, how much experience as mountain bikers do they have to have?

Kelly 15:51

We actually tell and in that video that I made, we tell our coaches, you don't need to be good at mountain biking. You don't even need to be fast. You don't have to have raced ever. You don't have to know anything about racing. If you have a good attitude, a willingness to learn, and a willingness to acknowledge that you are a role model and a leader on the team. Yes, we give you everything else. We got you covered. We'll give you the tools, the skills. We actually this year have set in place an initiative to help empower our coaches even more and give them the tools to succeed because they are the ones creating the experience for the kids, right? They are the ones making it all possible. I'm just giving them the tools. Yeah. And that means we we have people who have not ridden consistently until they they their kid joined a team and they're like, Well, I mean, if I'm gonna just sit in the parking lot and wait for that for practice to be over, I might as well ride my bike. Yep. Yeah. And that has they have been some of the best coaches that we have.

Kristin 16:52

Yeah.

Kelly 16:52

Because they learn to love the sport alongside their kids. It's pretty awesome.

Kristin 16:55

I I first of all, as a parent who has ridden, you met my daughter downstairs. She and I raced cyclocross together, we've raced mountain biking together. It's one of the greatest experiences I've ever had, and I I definitely recommend to any parent. Um, but we joined as coaches last year for the first time. And it's funny because my husband and I bring two different sets of experience. So my husband has never volunteered for a kid thing, right? Like the joke always was like, I was like, you should volunteer. He's like, I don't like kids. And I'm like, Don't mind your dad, guys. And they're like, no, no, no, I like them. Um, but like he's there to be, he obviously does like kids. Um, he's a speedy guy, right? So he rides with the speedy kids and he'll say, like, I don't really know what I'm offering. And I'm like, you're offering just being there, just guiding these kids, helping them push their limits, being a good role model. And I'm there, I'm at the back, I'm with the beginners, I'm sweeping, I'm giving just the right amount of like pushing and I love it. Like, I, when my daughter graduated from high school and Girl Scouts was over, you know, I gave myself a couple years, and I was like, I really miss working with kids. Like it really, it's not in my day-to-day. And it's just so rewarding when you get out of your car and you hear someone like Coach Christian! Like, hey, what's up? It really does. Like it's so, it's so simple in some ways. It's like such a simple joy outside of kind of our normal. And I'm gonna say, I think Steve ended up being in better shape last year because he was like, Wow, all my numbers are really good. And I was like, You realize you're riding at least once a week with a speedy group of kids. And he's like, Oh, yeah. So there were other the kids are good for something. The kids are good for something. We'll keep them. Yeah.

Kelly 18:45

I will I will say one of the things I hear a lot is the term coach is intimidating, right? Because when you think of coach, you think like soccer coach or football coach, and they have experience. Maybe they played in high school or college or whatever, and they're like, I'm gonna pick this up because I'm an expert. And the reality is a coach is just a I mean, we we should probably call it for level one chaperone. Like you're just sh, you're just you're just you're helping get gather the cats, right? Like all the straight cats in the little room bringing them around. That's all it is. And and when you're out there riding, like when your husband's out there riding and with the faster kids, he's probably going over rocks that he feels confident on or boots, or he's taking lines that maybe they haven't thought of before. That in its own way is coaching, right? You're you're leading by example, yes, which is awesome.

Kristin 19:36

I do try to remind people too, like forget the high school level at elementary school. Like, most parents that were doing soccer coaching didn't know Bubkiss about soccer. They were just the suckers that said yes, right? Because no one else would. Honestly, that's how I became a Girl Scout troop leader. Because I was like, I'd like Sophie to join Girl Scouts, and they're like, We don't have enough troops. I was like, look, I can help with. I'm really Good at paper mache, and I'm really good at it. And they're like, Yeah, we have enough of you. Yeah. We need people to step up to lead the troop. And I was like, well, that's fine. I don't know what I'm doing, but fine. And and so yeah, it's very much a fake it till you make it.

Kelly 20:13

Yeah. We do a fairly decent job of um decreasing the duration of the fake it part of that. Yes. That spectrum of experience for our coaches. And yeah, I I think the community we have of coaches in the league helps elevate the experience for all of them. That they are the ones who've been there longer, are willing to share their own knowledge and experience and are more forgiving when someone comes in not knowing what they're doing.

Kristin 20:36

Well, because you do in part just need the bodies to make sure these kids get from point A to point A.

Kelly 20:41

Someone with a fully formed prefrontal cortex so that when something happens, you can at least think logically and solve some problems that teenagers and middle schoolers don't know yet how to solve.

Kristin 20:53

Absolutely. Absolutely. Then we have the parents who have their own who aren't coaching, but they still have their fundamental role. In fact, I saw that our team, the Dover Demons, shared a sign, a graphic that said, when a child joins the team, the family joins a community, which I thought was really lovely. I love that. What, you know, if a parent says to you, okay, I'm I'm not coaching, like what is expected of me, or what is my role? What is the answer to that?

Kelly 21:23

I mean, a parent's role in NEYC is arguably not that different than joining a different sport, right? So it's not like we're asking of them totally different things or that you have to learn a bunch of stuff because the coaches usually are the ones that are providing the guidance for the teams. And a parent is really expected to make sure that their kid has the equipment equipment they need, right? And in good working order. That might that doesn't mean the parent has to be the one fixing the bike or doing the work on it. That means relying on local bike shops. And a lot of them support the teams very well. And and they are part of the lifeblood of the league, the shops. So that's one piece around it is making sure that the athlete has what they need to be able to go to practice. So equipment, but also water, snacks, you know, that kind of stuff. Maybe if there's any sort of medical conditions, they have to make sure that the coaches know. But none of that is really any different than if you're going to soccer practice, right? Um, but then the other pieces would be reading the emails that come from the league, doing the registration, uh, making sure that your kid is prepared for race day. There's there's some elements around kind of learning, but a lot of that learning comes through the team, you know, the communication that comes from head coaches and team managers.

Kristin 22:40

Do you find that equipment, that question of what do they need for equipment is probably the hardest piece to explain to non-cycling parents? Like I feel like we always struggle with, I mean, I see this in the shop, right? A bike is a bike, is a bike, right? And so trying to explain to someone, well, that bike looks like a mountain bike, but isn't really a mountain bike versus that bike, which is like now we're into mountain bike, is I I find that's hard in the shop and sometimes hard with parents too. Like, so how do we how do we explain what is like the minimum that they need for equipment?

Kelly 23:21

So, oh, great question because this is something it's funny. Every question is a great question. Um, I so I would say for me as executive director, that is not a question I get as commonly because I'm not the boots on the ground answering, interacting with every single athlete and family that comes into the league. Usually those questions get funneled towards the head coaches and team managers or bike shops, right? And so I would say if someone was to approach me about that, we have some requirements around racing for what's what you need a minimum for your bike. And it's more focused around tire size or wheel size because uh smaller wheels, it just would be like a BMX bike is not a suitable bike for racing. There's numerous reasons, but we typically say you can't go to Walmart or big box store and go buy a bike. Usually that's for new for several reasons, but one of them is they aren't usually assembled well enough to hold up to trail conditions. Yep. Um, but then also they're not made to last and keep you safe on a trail. As executive director, my job is risk manager. I mean, probably the most important job. So I need to make sure that any bike that gets out on the trail is one that's gonna make it to the finish line. Yes. Um, so when someone comes in and says, What bike do I need? The best bike you can have is one you're gonna ride, one, and one that's gonna keep you safe. So usually if someone is saying that's not a proper mountain bike, there's probably some safety considerations there around braking and and just tire width and all that stuff to keep, you know, even just tire type to keep you safely riding.

Kristin 25:06

I do think that's the hardest, you know, if you haven't bought a bike since you were 13 and now you're trying to buy a proper mountain bike, even at the entry level, um, it can be a little bit of price shock, right? Um, also when you think, oh, they're gonna grow out of it, or um, but I do try to emphasize that a bike is one of the few pieces of equipment that you can use outside of the sport, right? If you buy a good quality bike, you can ride that to school, you can ride that on the weekends, you can ride that with friends. Um, I I usually equate this to my daughter's lacrosse equipment. She does not just casually put on her goalie gear and go for a walk, right? And that gave me sticker shock. Yeah, right, right. But trying to explain that, because there have been times, I will say, where we see bikes that either are so old that they're just falling apart, and they and and you're trying to explain to parents why the bike can no longer do the job. Right. And it can feel like they think you're just trying to money grab, and and you're not, you're just it's really safety. Yeah. Then there's performance, right? Then there may be times where you say, oh, well, if this student was on a better bike, nicer bike, he she may do better. But really, number one is safety.

Kelly 26:31

Yes. And right I have some good news, and something we haven't talked about is the Lee actually, we NEYC aims to reduce the barrier to entry for the sport. I would say eliminate, but it's very difficult to eliminate anything. So we have some programs in place that help families. One is a financial aid program. And that is it, we for families that demonstrate need, we can offer discounts or full coverage of registration fees for both the league and also race registration fees. But aside from that, we have a loner bike program. We have a fleet of loaner bikes that, and this is not a well-known thing. I don't know why we're spreading the word. I know.

Kristin 27:13

So everybody see our first clip.

Kelly 27:16

Yeah. We have a loaner bike program that has it's a small, it's a modest fleet of bikes. Okay. They're hardtail bikes, meaning that they only have a fork in the front for suspension. They don't have the shock in the back. But many of our kids ride full uh hardtail bikes and they succeed well. I ride a hardtail bike as a single speeder, so just saying. But um the the Loner Bike program exists to help introduce kids who are interested in the sport, but timid about investing, right? And it may not be the kid, it's the family who's thinking like the family. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna buy this bike and then my kid's gonna hate it. And now we have a bike that we bought, and we used important money in our savings or whatever it is. So what we say is that you don't necessarily have to demonstrate need in the same way you do for financial aid.

Kristin 28:06

Okay.

Kelly 28:07

We will allow someone who may not have the means to just go and buy a bike and go try the sport for the season with one of our loaner bikes, and then at the end of the season, give it back to us. And so we give it to the racer, they can try it out, and then they they're expected to make sure it stays in good working order, that it doesn't get stolen. Right.

Kristin 28:28

Don't leave it out in the rain.

Kelly 28:30

Right, exactly, exactly. We give it to them in good working order. We expect some wear and tear. But of course, the amazing thing is we got a donor this year who wants to buy five new bikes for the league for the loaner bike program. And the biggest challenge I have is saying, you know, who who wants one? Like, we keep getting the word up, right?

Kristin 28:50

Yeah that people know that that's available. Right. That is fantastic. Yeah, I think that's amazing. Yeah. So what I want to ask about next is the what I'll call equipment escalation. Yeah. Right. And there's no greater joy than watching a bunch of kids around equipment talking about equipment, right? Like they're not on devices, they're not, but I have noticed a little bit of in peer pressure to be like, oh, well, you need, you need, you need, you need, right? You need dual suspension, you need carbon, you need this, you need that. How do we reinforce to the to the parents? Because then what we have is parents who are like, well, do they need? And one parent said to me, he said, you know, it's hard because you guys are out there on the nicest stuff. He's totally right, right? Like full carbon, dual suspension, electronic everything. I got it all. Yeah, I'm an old lady on a bicycle. Um, but how do we maybe pull back some of that and reinforce to the kids and the parents what they actually need versus some of this internal, you know, uh escalation that's happening?

Kelly 29:55

Yeah. I mean, that internal escalation also is a big source of that is social media.

Kristin 30:00

Go, yeah. Right.

Kelly 30:01

Because it's so, so easy now to go and find pros and see what equipment they're using and see pictures of it and be like, well, I'll be fast like Matthew Vanderpool if I have a bike like Matthew Vanderpool.

Kristin 30:16

I mean, I do ride the same bike as Kate Courtney, so like just so you know, I'm fast now. Doesn't help.

Kelly 30:23

And that said, I think all of that, that comparison game around equipment and this focus on equipment really takes away from the bigger message that at this age the thing that's gonna make you fast is not the bike.

Kristin 30:38

No.

Kelly 30:40

That comes later at the pro level. The equipment matters there, or ounces matter. But at this age, skill matters so much more. And so if you can learn how to ride corners smoothly without breaking a ton, if you can learn how to pump off the backside of roots and rocks, that kind of stuff, technique, how to conserve your energy on climbs, all of these kinds of things make you a better rider and faster. That's what's gonna help you excel in this larger trajectory of the sport. And I think that for anyone who who gets questions like this, it's it's an easy way to divert away from it is to say a bike as long as it's a safe bike and it's one that's not I mean, there is there is an element of weight. If you're a small rider, the bike to the bike weight to body weight ratio is different than if you're a fully grown adult. So there is an element of that that makes it more challenging, but generally speaking, technique is so much more important. So coaches can kind of divert that conversation into well, let's talk about ways that your rider can get free speed, right? It has nothing to do with with expensive bike. Think about free speed. And so that that's a piece of it, I think. Um, but it is really tough because especially our older, more experienced riders in the league, they're all also racing outside. Well, not all of them, but many of them race outside of the league. And they are up against some of the best in the country. Those kids are like tiny pros. I mean, they get they get treated the same way that pros do. Yeah. It puts a lot of pressure on the kids. Um, but a lot of that hyper focus ends up leaning, leading to burnout. And I I just I always want to try to keep it fun.

Kristin 32:26

Um well, I feel like this is one of the few sports that you can do for a lifetime, right? I'll I'll pick on a lacrosse again, right? My my son used to play lacrosse, he's not playing anymore. Yeah, but my husband is still racing mountain bikes at 53, right? Or and if you're not racing, you can still be riding. So avoiding that burnout and really embracing the joy is, I think, so important. And you're right, focusing on the skills and drills, some of my favorite practices are when we just never left the field. And we just, I remember teaching them pedaling through turns, right? Like if you could, instead of just leaning to them, I was like, if you pedal through the turn, you'll have some control, you'll have some speed, and you're coming out in speed. There's a parent standing next to me, he goes, How does everyone know this? We should tell more people. It's like, I mean, it's not for every turn, right? It's more of a cyclocross skill that we were bringing into the, but just the idea that yes, you have this, you have opportunities in those, in the fundamentals. Yeah. You know, that parent is not wrong, also, that most many of the coaches, especially if we ride all the time, we do have really good gear. And and I do try to talk to the kids when they ask me questions and be like, look, you do you need this no? Or this is why I have it, right? This is I use electronic shifting because I do have issues with my hands and you are 12 and you do not.

Kelly 33:54

Yeah, right, right. And that's not why some of the pros have it. And it doesn't mean that they need to. I I always tell the kids, especially a lot of the kids that I mentor, you have time. This is not, we're not on this fast track to to pro hood that you then, if you don't get there by the time you're 18, the world is gonna fall apart for you. No, very few people make it in a way that pays their mortgage as a pro anything. Period, end story, right?

Kristin 34:23

Yeah.

Kelly 34:23

I I raced professionally for a period of years. I didn't start mountain biking. Like not just racing, I mean picking up a mountain bike for the first time until I was 23. And I didn't start racing until I was 26, 27. Yep. And I was pro for about seven years. So it doesn't I didn't start when I was 12. I wish I did, but also would I have burned out?

Kristin 34:50

An interesting thing about cycling is um you peak later in cycling. You do, just in general. Yeah. That's and I'm sure there's articles that'll look them up afterwards about why that happens. But when you look at the the you know, the pros today, they're not 18, they're not 19. The the ones are really, I mean, Nino just just retired. Yeah. And he's in his 40s? 40s. 41. Yeah, something like that, right? So it's a much longer. The reality is though, most of these kids are not gonna end up pro. No. And that's what's important about bringing joy to all of this. And you're really good at that. Well, thank you. Thank you. Um, I've heard from others. How do you bring the joy to let's talk about race day because I think that's really where it all explodes. And I do say to people like, go to a race. Yes, even if your kid has no intention of racing, just go. So tell me about race day.

Kelly 35:42

Oh, race day is a festival. And last year I started calling it uh synonymously race day or event day. Okay. Because I think that there's this hyper focus on the competition. And I really want to bring the joy of the community rather than the joy of competition to that day. So race day for me is really just a gathering of the communities that the micro communities become one macro community for a day. And we have six of those days. It's really awesome. You can kind of see the community grow over the course of seven weeks. Yes, it's a pretty quick season. But race day is like this big festival. We have all this, these arches and and flutter flags and banners everywhere. It feels very professional in a way.

Kristin 36:30

Everybody has their team tenth. Yeah, it's like a whole village. Yeah. You arrive and you're like, this is a destination, man. Right.

Kelly 36:37

Yes. For that day, this is where it's at. And we get kids, maybe 600 kids who register for a race, 600-something kids. Wow. And every kid comes with, I mean, most of them don't drive, right? So every kid comes with at least one parent, usually two, maybe some grandparents, maybe siblings.

Kristin 36:56

Yeah.

Kelly 36:57

It's thousands of people in one spot. It's incredible. And we have multiple categories throughout the day. So it's not like one big mass start with 600 kids. That would be bonkers. I can't even imagine. We'd have all kinds of pile-ups and stuff. It'd be awful. We do it in a way, again, risk manager hat on or risk manager helmet on. We we do it as a safety measure. We will actually send kids off in a safe number of waves with a certain number of kids in each wave. And so what we do is we have categories based on experience and ability. You might do one lap, you might do two, three, four, and you're matched with or you're you're grouped with kids of commiserate ability. So you're not, it's not like the fifth grader who's the standout racer is racing with all the fifth graders who are beginners. Okay. So we actually try to do this as an ability-based program where you're you're challenged and and in a healthy way, in a sustainable way that isn't going to be all about burnout, but it's also in a way that makes you push yourself. So yeah, so on race day, we have races that start at eight in the morning and we go all the way through to like five in the evening. It's a long day. But we have we have an announcer who interacts with the crowd, he asks questions, he plays games, he plays music. Yep. Uh, and and it's everything comes together on race day to be this amazing team effort of just magic and energy. And I walk around, so you ask what do I do to keep things you know joyful? I think one thing that I do, and it was super unintentional was this speed sparkles. I don't know. You probably see me walking with sparkles on my face. Yes. Um I'm all on board with sparkles. I love it, I love it. And it's funny, actually, I want to dial back for one second and say that I was not always this way. Oh. Yeah. I I actually have a history of depression and anxiety, like my mental health challenges. And I always, as a kid, and and when I was racing pro even, I was very stoic, very like, you have to be serious and stone faced. Don't let them see your pain. And I found that it was very limiting. But also when I started to just race with joy, like a smile on my face, I started putting speed sparkles. It was like a light switch went off. I was like, wait, I can be happy and I can be fast. I don't have to be one or type two fun. Right, exactly. Type two fun. Um, and for those who don't know, type one fun is fun while it's happening. Type two is you look back on something, you're like, that didn't feel fun when it was happening, but now I realize a little bit. So anyway, um, I the speed sparkles thing was one of those like I there was a lot when I first started in the league. It was this will be my third race season coming up. Okay. So in 2024 race season, I had just started two weeks before the first race. That's right. There was a lot of chaos, a lot of pressure, and a culture that was really. Ripe for change. And so I went in trying to be as authentic as possible. And I was like, how do I make this fun? Because there was a hyper focus on winning and points and all that. So I started like I wore a mustache in one of the races. I wore sparkles. And then I'd call them speed sparkles because it wasn't just about sparkles. It wasn't glitter just for the sake of glitter. It was like this unlocks your true inner power. And kids started asking for speed sparkles. I know it was amazing. So we now have this ritual on race day where I actually can't. I tell the team that works with me, I can't have an important job on race day outside of giving speed sparkles because I will always I almost consistently am giving speed sparkles all day long. And either starting a race.

Kristin 40:48

I like that. Yeah, that's my title on race day. It's the ambassador of joy. Yeah, like let other people run the show. You you're the front and center. You are dictating the day, right? Like when you show up in your costumes, when you let other people wear costumes, when there's capes involved. Like that's all I'm a big costume person. Like right over there at the Power Ranger shirts that my son and I are gonna wear for PMC winter cycle. Like I'm all about the kids, right? Yep. And that's I think that just unlocks it so that this is not serious. Right. This is kids on bikes. Yeah. Right. And by the way, most of them are just gonna be happy they got through it. Nobody's going pro here. Like let's have some fun.

Kelly 41:29

We were joking at one of the board meetings recently that if a kid becomes an Olympian and they raced an NEYC, it was an Olympian by accident. Like we didn't we didn't train you to become an Olympian. That's gonna have to happen in a step, many steps beyond us. You've outgrown us if you're gonna become an Olympian. If you think about the the larger trajectory of our just youth development in general and in sport in general, yeah, we live in the the early stages, right? We live in the stages of teaching someone how to train, teaching them what competition means, how to build community and sport, maybe how to how to race, but we're not in the race to win kind of end of things. We're not in the be the best end of that spectrum. And that's not our place, and we're happy to not be there. Yeah, there's certain expectations around that. So we're about having fun, speed sparkles being one thing, race themes where we say, okay, this week is tie-dye week, this week is crazy socks week, and people show up unashamedly, like I wear taco socks, taco cat socks. And I try to lead by example so that others feel unashamed to do the same thing or unafraid to do the same thing, because the more you can show up as yourself, the more welcoming it feels as a community in general. So yeah, the fun stuff is the stuff that keeps that we just keep coming back to. And it's where I found building community to be the most meaningful for me.

Kristin 42:58

What I find is unique about both the practices, the teams, and race day also is the mix of ages and the mentoring and leadership opportunities that are getting unlocked for our older racers versus our younger racers and riders. I I've said to my daughter at once time, I was like, imagine if our Girl Scout troop had been grades five to 12. And she was like, What? I just want you to picture that for a second, like what that might look like. Because I mean, observing like older kids, older riders, helping younger riders, watching younger riders look up to the older riders. One of the things you guys do is it's a huge group, and there are very few venues that can handle you all. Right. So you split the day, right? So like in the morning is the younger riders, in the afternoon is the older, and then they split. Yes. They you swap that. Yes. But I'm always amazed by the number of kids that hang out, that that keep watching, right? Like, what what do you think the value is to, you know, if a parent was to ask, like, really, you're gonna put my fifth grader with our 12th grader? That seems crazy. What would you say to them?

Kelly 44:07

Yeah. Um, well, first and foremost, where else in life can you think about a time when there was that age range all in one place, all supporting each other, all cheering on each other, watching each other. I've never been in anything like that before. It feels like this is the only sport that really is conducive for it. Maybe running anyway.

Kristin 44:29

Yeah, cross country might have a similar vibe, absolutely. Because it's the mixed gender, too, right? That you don't get a lot in other sports. Correct, correct.

Kelly 44:37

Yep. So yeah, you get very like this. Is the girls' soccer team? Yeah, they go off in their own field.

Kristin 44:42

And here's the girls lacrosse, you know, tournament we're doing, and it's all these different teams, but it's not necessarily all there's like one Ashland team. It's not like the entire town of Ashland comes, like it's you know, where everything is. It's such a vibe.

Kelly 44:56

Yeah, it's such a vibe. So, so uh to get back to your question about well, a fifth grader, the only time a fifth grader is with a 12th grader is at practice. Yes. And we help teach our coaches how to manage that dynamic. And usually when you are working on skills, it doesn't matter what age you are, you can get in a line and you can do the drill and then you can get back to the end of the line. And frankly, having them mixed together, the fifth grader can see the 12th grader who's really good at that skill and be like, that's what that looks like. Oh, okay, I get it. Versus, you know, Coach Steve or Coach Kristen showing the skill and being like, Well, they're an adult. Like that doesn't, you know, that that I can't relate to that, right? Of course, kids not really having that thought in their head, but it's like, oh yeah, there goes Coach Kristen, no big deal. She's really rad on a bike, and I can't do that. But having someone who's much closer in age makes that skill much more real, right? It makes it more accessible. So to a parent who's like, I can't have my fifth grader with 12th graders, well, when you go out on the trails, your fifth grader is probably not gonna be in the 12th grader ride. No, they're usually gonna split into groups unless there's a reason to keep them together, and the coach is then expected to make a condition of the environment that is conducive for every ability. Yeah. So it it depends on the team. It's an it's a hard answer to give because there isn't like one way that a team manages that dynamic, but there's always considerations for helping that like spectrum of ability be supported and in an environment that is gonna keep continuing to help them grow.

Kristin 46:35

The reality is you don't have to start at fifth grade either. I think there's this idea in our culture that if you don't start a sport young, you just can't. Yeah. Like I remember someone saying to us years ago, Oh, Anders should um he well, he should do hockey, but it's probably too late. And I was like, he's in fifth grade. Yeah. What do you mean it's too late? Like, what are you talking? What are you talking about? Right? Or when the kids started lacrosse in like middle school and they're like so brave to start that so late. Right. What are we doing? Right, right. But NYC, you can, I mean, any sport really, but NYC in particular.

Kelly 47:14

Start anytime. Start anytime. We welcome all abilities, all personalities. It's pretty darn special. And I think one of the concerns that parents bring up that is something that we we address or we kind of work on as a league is well, you're just mixing them all together, right? The boys and the girls. There are definitely differences in personalities, right? So just developmental differences on race day for the youngest kids, there isn't a huge difference in gender uh for ability. Like that relationship just because the girls and the boys are not, they haven't gone through puberty yet, they're not fully developed, even their cognitive abilities are pretty similar. So when you're looking at the beginner races, we put them all together. We don't start 100 kids at once, we put them in waves, which are usually up to about 40 kids, and we we line them up very systematically. We every kid gets their name called before the race. So they get on the big speakers. You get like, and next up is Kelly Catale from NnyY C, right? It would be so, you know, little little Sally from the Hillsborough Hawks, you know, something like that. And they they would go through, you know, get in their place in line, and then I talk them through the start of the race. So we talk about taking a deep breath, if there's anything to think about while racing, if there's something out on course, right? You know, one year we had um some mud puddles, so I was telling them, like, you know, maybe if you're gonna pass, don't try to do it in the mud, you know, that kind of stuff. If you're gonna pass, be nice, be patient. Yep. But then as we get up old into the older categories, the more experienced categories, we actually tried last year. We and it was very successful. We had separate boys and girls waves. So the girls got to race on their own. Although I will say there's some girls who just picked off the boys. Yeah, they're very fast. You know. So it's awesome. It's awesome. I love it. So yeah, so we've um there's a lot of that, like this sport welcomes all, and the sport is a you know, it's this place where you can just we'll just meet you where we are, right? It's not a bit of a.

Kristin 49:21

I feel like there is a um certain personality that chooses to do mountain biking over soccer, over like you you're already somebody who's maybe going on a different path, and and mountain biking gives you that chance to like do something different. You don't you don't necessarily want to follow the same as everybody else? Race day. Well, we're talking about race day and that experience. There are times I'd be standing next to a parent whose their child is racing, and they're like, they're just gonna let them go. Right? Do you hear that a lot from parents? They're like, are they gonna make it back? Is everything okay?

Kelly 50:00

Yeah, like what happens in the woods? We actually do a phenomenal job of uh requiring that we have points out on course where there is an adult posted. Okay. So uh lots of things happen in the woods. One is before the race, any race starts, we have an immense amount of setup work. And part of that setup work includes taping this bright colored tape. It's bright blue that says Shimano on it. It is like the indicator of you're on course. We tape every single intersection and every single place where someone could cut a corner, someone could potentially go off course because there might be like an old trail. We make sure that you know you're on course. You could be totally alone and you know, because we're not going to leave you in a space where you can't you can't determine which way is the right way. And then every at least every mile-ish, if not less than a mile, we have an adult posted. Okay. And they sit there with first aid supplies, with a radio, and then they can call back to home base if they need to. So there's checkpoints, and kids can see, like, oh, okay, I'm I know I'm on course. I passed, you know, course martial one. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, they and usually we put those course marshals in strategic places where maybe there's a feature that, like a mud pit where someone might need some assistance or something. So what happens on course is actually they go out for a ride on trail and they're gonna see people to make sure that they're, you know, to reassure them they're on the right track. So it's there's a lot that can happen out on the trail. We recognize that it is a sport that can be risky, just like a lot of other sports, football, you know, that's a pretty risky sport. There's soccer lacrosse, all the things are risky.

Kristin 51:48

Everything's risk. I mean, I think that's we talk about that a lot. Just life is risk. You just have to choose the risk that you're the most comfortable with. Yeah. We do the best we can to mitigate it.

Kelly 52:00

Right. And that's that's our job when we're setting up. We're saying, okay, where where might we need to reroute the trail because this is too dangerous? Or where might we need to shorten things or whatever it is. I'm I am constantly playing through my risk management kind of protocol in my head of like, well, what kind of risk is this gonna present? Yes, the one difference between a soccer game, football, meaning the kid disappears for some period of time and then you have to trust they're gonna make it back. Yeah. We we have course marshals out there, we have emergency medical staff that will we have protocols in place to find kids if they you know don't come back. So have I seen you have sweeps for some of the littler groups too? Actually, right? Like a parent.

Kristin 52:47

Oh, every group has a parent sweep.

Kelly 52:48

Yeah, that's a good point. So we have we have sweepers, again, sweepers like that caboose. Um, we have they follow the last rider, and there's usually some space between them and the last rider, so it's not like a fun joy ride, unless the kid wants that. Some kids are like, Will you ride with me? Like, okay, let's have a conversation. Right, exactly. And there are kids like that. So we do have sweepers for every single race. Okay. Even the the most experienced, the fastest. And it usually that sweeper has to be a bit faster or on an e-bike, um, just because we have sweepers, we also have roaming marshals, and they are adults on or in actually I should say every sweeper, every roaming marshal, which is a rider that just rides around on course during a race, then they're not following anyone in particular. They're just out there. So in between those course martial points where they're statically sitting somewhere, that person is monitoring the in-between, right? They're seeing if anything's happening. So they're just we usually have one or two of those out there. And all of those, so the course martial sitting uh points, sweepers, roaming marshals, they all have to be at least level one coaches. So they have background check. So you're not throwing some rando in the woods with kids. They have to have the concussion and the safe sport training. That gives me the assurance. We didn't used to do that. And I finally put my foot down, I was like, they have to be level one coaches.

Kristin 54:14

Oh, okay.

Kelly 54:15

And we will not start a race until we know all those positions are filled. So we've had moments where we're like, hey, we have course martial three spot is open. Okay. I'm gonna wait here on the start line until we find someone.

Kristin 54:29

Until you tell me there is someone standing there. Okay.

Kelly 54:32

And we almost, no, not almost, always we find a coach, a parent. Yeah. Someone steps up because as a community, we want this to run smoothly. Right. So yeah. But those are my safety helmet kind of things that I always make sure. What are your goals for this year or just moving forward? I'm sure if I have a lot of time to ruminate on this one, I have lots of goals. I think there's two major ones in my head that are popping up right now. Okay. One is actually not about race day at all. I mean, and in some ways, it's all about race day. So it's a little bit of both. Right. One is to enrich and help our coaches experience, help the coaches thrive. So last year was a lot about helping the kids and creating a race environment and a practice environment that supported them. And then this year has been a real true focus on the adults that make the magic happen. So we've partnered with Highland Mountain Bike Park to provide our coaching education. So we actually have in-person coaching sessions. They're about four hours long. Okay. It's free to the coaches. And they the trainer will actually come to you if you request the training as a team to learn how to ride and then how to teach the skills of riding to others. So how to do progression and how to notice when something's off and what language to use for it. Remember, I said we help our coaches, we give them the skills to succeed. This is one of those pieces. So we are providing that. We have some online resources. We're doing for the first time last October, we did a retreat for our coaches where we talked about a lot of the interpersonal challenges around coaching and what makes a good coach isn't just the technical stuff. Right. So, goal one in my mind is this supporting of the coach and helping them thrive, but also showing them that they're valued. That's something I really care about. So there's that piece. And then I think the second one is around creating community and fun, even more fun on event days. Okay. We I actually have someone who is sold contract right now is around finding us food trucks for race day. So ice coffee truck, like a savory truck.

Kristin 56:48

You had me a coffee.

Kelly 56:49

Oh, me too. Yeah, because I'm so busy. I don't have like a coffee maker. I wake up at like 4 30 in the morning to get to race day to start setup and prep. And usually one of the teams is like, Hey Kelly, do you need some coffee? And I'm like, Yes, I do. Coffee truck, uh, food truck, ice cream truck. That's gonna help with like there are some teams that come with a full setup of a grill and a pizza oven, and it's kind of amazing, and that's part of what makes the team tent area so awesome. It's also like smells like food all day long, which is amazing. But not all teams have the means to do that. Yeah. And they've been definitely not neglected, but they've had a different experience than some of these teams who are more pre more prepared. Prepared.

Kristin 57:34

No, I mean the demons have like a full-on rig, right? Like I'm all would you would you like a hamburger, a hot dog, a chicken sandwich, you know, and I'm amazed by the work that the team does to get that done. But it it shouldn't be taken for granted. Right. It's it honestly didn't occur to me that they're all not doing that, but it's also not terribly efficient that we're all doing that, right?

Kelly 57:56

Well, and who's gonna bring the grill? You know, not all teams have people with giant pickup trucks or a trailer or whatever. So it it does present challenges, and we want to try to at least bring some excitement for the families that don't have that available to them. And then on top of that, and maybe more exciting, is every single event that we have, we are going to have a fun non-race thing activity of some sort. Awesome. So, for example, there's gonna be a scavenger hunt, there's gonna be a treasure hunt, there's gonna be, we're gonna do some relays, some team relays the day before. We're gonna do tie-dying and we have the coaches race at the last race. So yes, which was just chaos.

Kristin 58:41

Like that was a year. Did it was last year's coach race? Last year was my first, hey, my first year at all. Yeah, it was definitely my first. So it was my first coach's race. Yeah, just it was chaos. I loved it. I loved it. I loved having the um, I think it's kind of like when I was racing with my daughter too. It's good for kids to see grown-ups racing and struggling and crashing into things and just generally making fools out of themselves and to be able to heckle them. And you know, it was great. Like it really was just the d the dumbest thing ever. And I loved it. Totally. Yeah. I loved it.

Kelly 59:17

And for those who don't know what we're talking about, the coaches race historically over the years has been this sort of celebration at the end of the season at the last race where the coaches line up to race. Yep. Here we tried something new. Oh, okay. And we made a short course and we set a time limit and we said, we're gonna race for 25 minutes or whatever. Yes. And this course is gonna go, you know, this little loop is like a mile or whatever. And there's gonna be a feed zone, just like the kids have a feed zone. So you can hand up, and there was handing up Twizzlers and Oreos and gummy worms and all these crazy things.

Kristin 59:54

The start. And the start was a Le Mon style start. So I'm like, okay, no problem. I'm just gonna put my bike way back here. But then you had to start via rock, paper, scissors. Correct. So the winner was the winner of rock, paper, scissors. So I won on the second, which means I had to grab my bike and try to remember I had put it at the back because, you know. So now I'm trying to haul it over everybody else's bikes because they didn't put them to the sides. They put them right in the middle. So I'm like, do not crack somebody's derailler trying to get your bike over things. It was just, I mean, the backup was chaos, but that's what I like about racing. Like I like those. That's why I liked Cyclocross. Like it was just dumb. Like it was just dumb fun. You're just too much. Yes, exactly. The silliest thing I'm doing. Yeah. And again, to have the kids, I guess I didn't realize it was a short course because I didn't walk the full course, but you're right. And I remember doing the second lap be like, oh, I can do it. Oh, I can do it again. Great. I guess I am. Because I would say to the kids, you should do it again. So I should do it again. What I also like is even though you're you said it, the the season's really short. Yeah. Right. Which I kind of like it's manageable for a parent. Like it's just this is not ice hockey. This is not quite not. But the kids do continue to race together, or I see those NEYC kits out. I have raced against NEYC kits. Funny, you did say there's no jumping. I was racing behind two kids at landmine a couple of years ago, and I was like, you know, if you stop bouncing, you'll go faster. Yes. Right? Because they every little thingy was like a hock off on it. That's more for the joy, not for the journey. No, it was all for the joy. I just was laughing because I was like, hey boys, like you could you could go faster. But do you find that that's happening more and more that the kids are continuing, they're they're taking that six weeks and going, what else?

Kelly 1:01:49

Yeah. So I I don't have the longevity in the organization to say it's different now than it was 10 years ago. But what I can say is what I've been hearing is kids are trying to find other outlets for continuing to be part of the sport. Some of them it means going to Highland Mountain Bike Park and learning some downhill skills and using the skills they learned XC racing to go enjoy a downhill park. For some of them, it's doing some Enduro, for some it's cyclocross. Yeah. But there are fall and summer racing opportunities, and I see all kinds of NEYC kits out there. And the kids are not, it's not something we manage. It's not an NEYC event when someone goes to a different race. But I'm not gonna stop them from wearing that kit and representing their micro community that we've talked about. Totally awesome with me. And it's really cool because it does mean anytime I go to a bike thing, it I see kids out there and they see me and they're like, Kelly, it's not gonna see you. Do you have speed sparkles I can have? Always I will, you know, have speed sparkles while travel essentially because I always get asked. Well, it has shankets on everything too. Oh it does. I'm like, you know, I get pull the laundry out and I'm like, they're just everywhere. But yeah, so they continue to race, and there's uh different levels of seriousness in that, right? So you have kids who are racing at the national championships or uh big, you know, inner international races. Yeah, and then you have kids who are like, I I want to stay local and just continue to race and learn about myself, learn about my community. And then some do adventure rides. They're like, I'm gonna go do a bikepacking trip or something. So cool. There's so much more out there, and our job is to help prepare them to find whatever else is out there to keep them in this sport for their entire life.

Kristin 1:03:37

Wow.

Kelly 1:03:37

I swear only two more questions.

Kristin 1:03:39

No, keep them coming. I know, right? This is a four-hour show. I know that this is something that's that's important to you. It's important to me too. How do we get more girls to participate?

Kelly 1:03:49

That's such a good question. And such a complicated one.

Kristin 1:03:53

Right.

Kelly 1:03:53

That's it. I have the magic sauce. I'm gonna answer it now, and you all know. I mean, the truth is that it's not an easy task. Yeah, there are a lot of different ways that people have tried, there are ways that people have succeeded. Yep. Um, there is no one solution. So I can tell you some anecdotes about stories that have worked. Yeah, if that would help. I I'll take any advice I can get. Yeah. So, I mean, for one, how to get more girls is to have girls in the first place. That is the chicken or the egg thing, right? Because when girls see other girls, they are more inclined to want to join because they feel like, oh, I see me there, right? I can see myself enjoying myself there. That isn't always easy in a sport that's male dominated, right? So a lot of these teams, the coaches are led by men, and most of the attendees of practices and races are boys. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that, right? We we we will take what we can get as a community. Efforts that have worked are having girls-specific rides. Okay. So advertising saying we're gonna have a girls group. And that gets into a little bit because there's so few girls. You get the fifth grader riding with the 12th grader. Yep. The nice thing is that usually the 12th grader, 11th grader, 10th grader, the high schooler in general, wants that experience of giving back and mentoring because they probably had someone like that in their life. So they know the meaning of that relationship being really impactful. Or they didn't and they wish they did. Correct. Yes, or they didn't and they wish they did. That's where I stand in that scenario. Um, so I think making an effort to have a separate girls' group ride. Yeah. And even if the group ride is you, one other female coach, and one girl, yeah, just keep showing up. I think the thing that happens a lot is that coaches, teams, they're like, we want more girls. They put in one one event, one effort, and they're like, Oh, only two people showed up. That didn't work. So we're gonna, it's just not, it's it's impossible. Yes, and the the truth is the ones who succeed, and this goes beyond just trying to recruit females. This transcends pretty much everything in life, right? Is just keep showing up, keep showing that you're gonna put the effort in. So it might be weekly, it might be every other week. Something like that has succeeded in the past and it builds momentum over time. This is playing for the long game. Right. This isn't like this season we're gonna get 15 girls. Right. There have been teams. So, another anecdote, we had a brand new development team, uh, K through fifth grade last year. Blue Hills Devo.

Kristin 1:06:31

So adorable.

Kelly 1:06:32

They are so adorable. I'm obsessed with that. They're also led by amazing coaches that that really care about their community. They wanted to try something that we've never done before. From day one for their team, they set limits. They said, we are gonna have a 50-50 split with boys versus girls. And I was like, Oh, okay. Okay, good luck with that, right? Um, but I was all for it, right? Like, yes, if you want to give that a try, I'm not gonna. Can I try something? Yeah. So what they did is they they set up their team, you because every team needs a passcode to register because the coaches have to confirm that you meet certain, like you live in the right zip code and all that. Yeah. So they gave their passcodes away to a bunch of boys to register, and it filled up very quickly.

Kristin 1:07:18

Yep.

Kelly 1:07:18

And then they waited and they slowly got the female participants, but it took some time. They put social media posts out, they they advertised, they were like, We are a team that wants girls on it, right? They put themselves out there showing that they are supportive of having girls on the team and they filled it. They had 50-50. It was 11 boys, 11 girls, or something like that. And they said the dynamic of practices, it was amazing. That just worked because they started from day one. It's harder with teams that are established to do that because you have returning members who are boys and you can't be like, oh, you've been on the team for six years, but now we're not gonna let you because we're waiting for girls to join.

Kristin 1:07:56

Yeah.

Kelly 1:07:57

So it's a little bit trickier. We tell our teams that if a girl wants to join and you've hit your maximum, see if you can find a way to get them on the team no matter what, right? So just see if you can get their family member to join so you can have another coach, that kind of thing. Um and then other ways to do it is to have like a mentorship program set up where you can assure the parent, hey, if your daughter joins, they'll be partnered with another girl on the team or a female coach or something like that, so they have some role model on the team.

Kristin 1:08:30

I think that can't be undervalued. I don't I don't know the stats on coaches, but having women coaches on each team, um, we're fortunate to have a couple. Um, fortunate, I'm on the team. I just said that was four. It's so fortunate that I'm not no, but we're very lucky to have her. Yeah, thank you. But I mean, they have Leslie Riding is an amazing coach, not a parent, but just a woman who's very committed to kids on bikes, women on bikes, and she's an amazing role model and just having her show up week after week after week, showing both the guys, the boys that that the women can do it, and then yeah, showing any parent that, like, oh look, the team, even the leadership of the team is not all men, I think is really important.

Kelly 1:09:18

Yeah, yeah. And you don't have to have experience coaching to be a coach, right? That has to like keep coming back as that message because because I think there is a tendency for the females of our lives, right, to to be hesitant when they see I'm not fully qualified. Well, that's I don't meet the criteria. Like you do, you're a fully functioning brain in a body that can ride a bike. Yeah you meet the criteria.

Kristin 1:09:45

I think, but I mean that's so typical of women. We know that, right? We know that they don't apply for jobs if they don't feel 130% qualified. We know, I mean, the number of women I have said, what who will ask me, like, oh, am I good enough to join your women's rides at the shop? I mean, I did go ride in Sedona, and then I did, and I was like, sweetie, if you're riding in Sedona, I'm fairly sure you can handle Sherburn, right? Like that's but we always are, do I belong? Yeah, is there a place for me? And I think it's it's as the same for you said the girls need to see other girl riders. I think women coaches wanna be, would be women coaches, need to see women coaches. Yeah. And the more that we can get even that built up, right? I feel like that's where it starts.

Kelly 1:10:34

Absolutely. Is get you know, if it if it's not gonna start with the girls being the younger kids joining, then maybe it has to start with the coaches and efforts in all kinds of places. You can hear of teams trying to find female coaches. It's like pleading to the moms or trying to find a racer that they can find in the race results of races. Like, oh, this person lives in our area. Could I message them and say, Can you come to a couple practices? It doesn't have to be every practice, but once you start to see the magic of this team, you're gonna want to come to get it.

Kristin 1:11:08

So you're like, what am I doing? Laundry?

Kelly 1:11:11

No, I'm gonna go. And there there is something to be said about the pro racers out there who are, I mean, I think in a lot of ways, especially endurance sport, individual sport, is a very lonesome pursuit, right? It's very, I I don't want to say selfish, but it is very like you are you are serving your primary goal of getting better, faster, whatever.

Kristin 1:11:33

Yeah.

Kelly 1:11:33

And when you take a step back and say, well, what was all that for? Right? Why, why did I struggle on races or put in all that time and effort, it can feel really empty. And finding a place to direct that experience and to be able to pass on the things, the hard lessons you've learned, this is the place, right? This is where that all of that energy could happen. And I've heard time and time again that those racers who were professionals, myself included, right, to be able to coach and give back is so special and so meaningful. So to find those pros and just propose it. Like, could you come to a practice or two, really show off all that experience you have? And the kids would uh find it amazing. Once they say yes, they're hooked. So there's ways to like kind of stock the results and stuff to find people too.

Kristin 1:12:23

Let's wrap this up, unfortunately. I know we've got to do that. Somebody wants um registration is open. Yeah, what do they do? How do they register? Yeah, give me the facts.

Kelly 1:12:32

Okay. Um, my suggestion if you are totally new to this, you don't even know what team you're on, but you want to be part of this, go to our website, which is ne youthcycling.com or New England Youthcycling.com. Both of them will will get you there. Those websites on it, there's a team locator map, and you can choose what type of team you're looking for, okay, and then find your team. And you will find an email address associated with that team, email them, talk to them about what the expectations are, because they might say you have to go to two practices a week or whatever it is. Usually they're pretty forgiving if you have other sports. And then they will give you the passcode to register and the link to register, and you can go in and sign your kid up. And registration is a two-part process. So you have league registration, which gets you the ability to be part of our programs. We're gonna be doing um a wellness series, a virtual wellness series with sports psychologists, sports nutrition, uh dietitian, amazing, female health physician. So there's a bunch of talks that's all free to our members. So that kind of stuff gets you with the membership fee. And then there's races, and you can register for those too.

Kristin 1:13:48

If you're not in a town that has a team.

Kelly 1:13:52

Great question. We have we have a sort of at-large team that is for members of our community that don't have their zip code covered. It's called the nomads. Okay there is an email for the nomads as well. Okay, and that email actually goes to me.

Kristin 1:14:09

If you're a nomad, can you join a say you live near the Dover Demons? Yep, but you're a nomad because you're not in their town. Can you join a practice with them? Yeah. The reason I asked this is because my daughter was a nomad way back in the day with any with what was before N UI C. Yep. Um, which meant we didn't really have anyone to practice with. And that's where the joy was. Yes. Right? Like that's where the she did a race, but she didn't feel like connected.

Kelly 1:14:39

So Yeah. I love that you're bringing this up. So the short answer is yes. Okay. We actually have special cases where I will talk with when someone reaches out to join the nomads or inquire about it, I'll actually ask them where do you live? And I'll look and see how close it is to the closest team. Sometimes we will make an agreement with the team that if you're not willing to take the whole zip code, but they're close enough to go to your practices and be part of that community. I would rather they have that experience. So just join the DMs.

Kristin 1:15:09

They have a friend on the team, you're not gonna be like, sorry, buddy. Yeah, it gets tough sometimes.

Kelly 1:15:14

I'm sure it does. There's there's teams where there's schools that cross boundaries of two different teams. So it gets a little tricky and it's one of the joys of the job. Um, but the the nomad, if they're way far away, usually what we say is we would like and we will support the effort of you starting a new team in your region after after you've gotten a taste of the league through the nomads. Usually we say one year, one year's not enough time. So it's actually something we've changed in our rule book. We've said within this the the few years, or we'll support you if it makes sense, right? But if someone's like, I we literally live in a town with five people in it, and there's no way we're gonna start and ten cows. Yeah, exactly. That's not feasible for us to start a team. I'm not gonna be like, Well, too bad, you got your gear in, you're not gonna be able to participate anymore. Yeah, so we're we're flexible, we're trying to be understanding, and any racer can join any practice of any team anytime, as long as the head coach says it's okay, right?

Kristin 1:16:18

You can't just be like Kelly said, Yeah, I could join. Right.

Kelly 1:16:22

We are a community, and that means, and once you've signed the liability waiver and all of that, you're covered. That covers everything.

Kristin 1:16:29

Yeah, so thank you so much for coming on our show. Thanks for having me.

Kelly 1:16:33

This has been such a pleasure. I really enjoyed this. Thank you so much.

Kristin 1:16:36

Nice job.

Kelly 1:16:37

Yeah.

Steve 1:16:44

That was an excellent, excellent interview.

Kristin 1:16:46

And I know for a fact you listened to it.

Steve 1:16:49

I did. I was working when you were doing that.

Kristin 1:16:52

Yep. Um, I prepped it and I posted it. Thank you.

Steve 1:16:56

Very informative. So um, yeah, and and they did talk a little bit about bike equipment, and we have recorded two shows over the past year regarding bike equipment and like kids' bike equipment and what they need for this.

Kristin 1:17:09

In particular for NEYC, inspired last year by NEYC. So we'll include links in the show notes, and and I'll probably try to pull out some clips from those past shows, you know, because um, if people follow us on social media, we kind of try to grab some highlights from each episode and share them as reels. Sometimes people think we're idiots based on those reels that we send out.

Steve 1:17:34

There will have to be a follow-up to the trainer erg mode situation.

Kristin 1:17:40

Well, you know, yes and no. So we posted, for those who don't know what we're talking about, we post I posted a reel. One minute is about all you can do, right? And it was you talking about how much you hate erg mode. And the thing is, the majority of people that respond are not our listeners. They're they're not even people who follow Steve the Bike Guy. So, on one hand, your your followers have increased.

Steve 1:18:05

Yep, they have.

Kristin 1:18:06

And I think the other thing is once somebody comes in and says, WTF, what are they talking about? Who are these dum dumbs? Are you gonna go in? Not you, but like you as a random follower go in, gonna go in and go, actually, I agree with him because we just had 20 people talk about what a moron Steve is. And I will say, it was kind of well, two things. We saw the most comments on Instagram this time, and we don't usually see a lot of comments on Instagram, they're mostly on TikTok. So we hit a nerve with the Instagram group. Yes. And I'm so used to you being the smartest bike guy in the room. I was really shocked. Like I was like, one guy was like, Who is this guy? I'm like, how do you not know who he is? He's Steve the bike guy. Like, so I don't even know if it's worth following up, but it it, you know.

Steve 1:18:57

No, it is because I want to do it's been a very long time since I have tried those modes.

Kristin 1:19:03

Yes.

Steve 1:19:03

And so I want to go back and retry them. I also believe there's definitely a software situation going on between what Zwift is telling your trainer to do and what your trainer thinks it should do. Yeah. Also, my trainer, my trainer can go up to a 25% simulated grade. That is basically unrideable almost. Right. And a lot of people's trainers can only do 12, 15%. So there could be a situation where my trainer can literally clamp down so hard that in my easiest gear, standing up, pulling on the handlebars, I can't turn the pedals.

Kristin 1:19:37

Well, and I also think some of the people who were commenting were commenting about erg mode outside of Zwift, right? Like I I don't know that it was always clear.

Steve 1:19:47

No, a lot of people didn't read the see the whole video. They just kind of watched the first few sentences, right?

Kristin 1:19:52

People only watch the first five seconds.

Steve 1:19:54

Didn't realize it was in Zwift.

Kristin 1:19:55

So somebody would be like, erg'm erg mode is great, so I can turn off my brain. And just watch Netflix. Yep, you're absolutely right. That's not what we were talking about. Right. And then other people were like, What is this cycling? And you said, like, if you look up Erg mode, you'll find the spiral of the desk spiral, everything. And I and you're absolutely right. I Googled Zwift Erg Mode and Zwift Insider has an article about it, which I did share. But nobody's talking about it.

Steve 1:20:25

So if a lot of people have a problem, it's that to me is a software.

Kristin 1:20:28

It's a real thing. But again, when you're on the internet and people are, you know, I do like to take screenshots and share them on my personal story of like them calling you, you know, who are these clowns? Or he's overreacting. And I was like, oh, I love it here. I love the internet. But we also put it out there, so we kind of asked for it.

Steve 1:20:49

We did.

Kristin 1:20:49

Um, you're much more, I think, even-tempered about it, in part because you don't read all the comments, where I read all the comments and I'm like, how dare they? He is very smart and he knows what he's talking about. And then I go, uh, nah, I don't know. Walk away. Yeah, you don't. You're confident. I like it. All right. Well, I think that's it. I think that is certainly long enough for this week. Cycling Together with Kristen and Steve is a production of Steve the Bike Guy, an independent bicycle shop in Mes in Eastern Massachusetts and Sundon Marketing.

Steve 1:21:21

If you like the show, please leave a review or a comment and share with a friend. For show notes, links, um, or for questions, comments, or topic suggestions, visit cyclingtogether.bike.

Kristin 1:21:31

You can follow the shop on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. You can leave defamatory comments as much as you want by finding Steve the Bike Guy.

Steve 1:21:40

Thanks, we'll see you next time.

Kristin 1:21:42

Bye.