Planning a Mixed Terrain Route

Each year, Kristin and Steve organize the "Hallowed Groad" a self-supported, mixed-terrain scavenger hunt adventure ride designed to introduce riders to the trails in our area as well a local "sites" that may be missed by most. They discuss what goes into planning a route, as well as how they market the event.

The change in season also has them sharing some of their favorite "shoulder season" gear.

Transcript

Kristin: 0:05

This is Kristin.

Steve: 0:07

And I'm Steve, and you are listening to Cycling Together, a podcast about all things bikes, riding, and riding together.

Kristin: 0:13

We are just back from a very unusual thing for us. We left the house on a Sunday morning and we went to brunch.

Steve: 0:20

In Boston.

Kristin: 0:21

In Boston. We're only about 40 minutes from Boston, so it shouldn't be as remarkable as it is. But we went into the city to what?

Steve: 0:31

The Panmask Challenge had their check presentation. Yeah, it was packed with people. Yep. And they did the whole check presentation to Dana Farber. It's really just a yeah, meet and greet type of thing. And uh it was 78 million dollars this year.

Kristin: 0:50

They keep they keep pushing that bar and they keep hitting it. So thank you to everyone who donated to us. And so that wraps up the PMC for this year. And today we're gonna be talking about another ride, something that we're organizing.

Steve: 1:08

Mm-hmm.

Kristin: 1:09

It's happening right now. But before we get to that, we should talk about the ride we did. Was it just last weekend?

Steve: 1:17

Oh, it had to be two weekends ago, right? So we did the every year the raw mountain bike riders in the town where the shop is located in Sherborne organize a 50k ride. So anywhere in the low 30 mile range. And I think this year we did 3233. So that was it was your longest mountain bike ride, right?

Kristin: 1:42

Yeah, this year I decided that I was going to give it a give it a go. I decided I was not gonna go with you ding-dongs because um I just wanted to have man pace. I've I had a couple of women that I've been riding with join me. And it was great. We started with a big group and then, oh, I gotta go, the kids are babysitters done, or you know, so we but we were down to our core three by the end. We ended up it was a nice course because it was very compact, and so we could lop off some bits of it and get back on the track very quickly.

Steve: 2:17

Yeah, this year we kept it all within the town.

Kristin: 2:20

Which is remarkable that you could do, which is, yes. So we did 24 miles, most of it uh on the trails. And as Sophie, our daughter said, when I called her later, she was like, Oh, you just ride every mile when you're doing a mountain bike ride. And and her point was you you can't make it up, right? You can't be like, oh, well, this is going slow, but I'm about to hit the road, and we're gonna do five miles on the road and we'll make up some time. No, if we hit the road, it was for like a quarter of a mile, half a mile. So we were out there for I was out there for three hours. And it was good. It was it was great. I do think next year I can probably push a little further, get the full 50k. One question that I had is I was riding with a friend who's on an e-mountain bike, and even being pretty conservative with her boost, because um all the mountain bikes have all the e-bikes have different levels of boost. Um, she barely made it back to the start at 24 miles before she was gonna be done with her battery.

Steve: 3:33

Well, she doesn't need a battery to pedal her bike.

Kristin: 3:36

Well, she doesn't, but it's not like a road bike, it's it's a heavy mountain bike, and if we were going through some technical stuff, that that's that's a weighty bike to not have your motor. Sure. Just the question was I assume you can't hot swap a battery out of a out of a mountain bike.

Steve: 3:56

So you're not carrying one of those batteries in your backpack.

Kristin: 4:00

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So how do you can you extend the range of a a mountain bike like that?

Steve: 4:10

There are many bikes, e-bikes like that, which you can have an auxiliary battery which takes up the spot of usually your bottle cage.

Kristin: 4:22

Oh, okay.

Steve: 4:23

And then depending on the bike, one or one of the two, or maybe just the primary bottle cage mount, and then it plugs into the spot where you normally charge your battery. So you basically are adding extra capacity onto your system.

Kristin: 4:38

How much does that weigh?

Steve: 4:39

Is that well, they're not as big of a battery as the primary battery, right? And it probably weighs anywhere between 10 to 15 pounds.

Kristin: 4:50

And how much more would that get somebody, do you think? Would that double the capacity?

Steve: 4:58

No, no, no, because they're not as usually as big of a battery.

Kristin: 5:01

Got it.

Steve: 5:02

So maybe another, I'd say 25 to 50 percent from some of the auxiliary batteries I know, or what they normally would get.

Kristin: 5:10

Okay. I mean, this was a big ride for her. I don't I don't think it was a problem. Um, but it just turned out we got lucky that we had already had it in our minds that we were gonna cut off some miles, and it just happened that we did it perfectly. Right. All right. So I've got to be a good one. Yeah, no, it worked out great. Absolutely. She didn't need any more. The the two of us who were riding her with her were done. But I'm always just really impressed with a ride like that, just because how you string together all of these different trails. Um, and I mean, in this case, it was pretty funny. There were a couple of areas where they had like do not trespass signs, but people either had permission for this event. Right. But I didn't know that. So as I was riding, we the you know, four or five moms when we started with stock and be like, I don't know, can we go? Can we what's right? And I was like, okay, well, and we were like sleuthing for the well, we can see tire tracks went this way. So I'm sure this is where they went. Like one of them was carved out of somebody's backyard. Oh, that was Ken's house. Yeah, because you would knock the fence down, basically. They took a panel out of the fence so that we could get through, but we're just standing there on the edge of somebody's yard going, is this where we're supposed to go?

Steve: 6:36

That would probably be the worst in terms of say wondering if you people that way.

Kristin: 6:41

And that's when we're like, I think I see tracks, it looks flatter. And that's when I found out later it was Ken's house.

Steve: 6:51

So there were 60-ish riders or so. So we broke down into a lot of different groups.

Kristin: 6:58

There's a very organic quality to rides like that one because they're not structured in a way, like there's we all were starting at the same time, but there wasn't like the A group, the B group, the C group. It kind of was like whoever ends up together ends up together.

Steve: 7:13

Yeah.

Kristin: 7:14

Unless you exactly.

Steve: 7:15

Unless it was being it was self-selection. Yeah.

Kristin: 7:18

Yeah.

Steve: 7:18

Yeah. Oh, and and we have a bagpiper that starts us off in the morning. He was great. He was great, right?

Kristin: 7:25

He started playing something and he says, uh, did you recognize that? Did you recognize that? And I was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I wasn't really paying attention, thinking he was gonna be like, Yeah, it was the new, you know, Ophelia by Taylor Swift or something like that. And he goes, Well, I saw all the people wearing the No Kings buttons, so it's the Ukrainian national anthem. I was like, Of course it is. He knows he knows that in bagpipes, he knew that in bagpipes, and somehow also thought I might know that well enough to be at each able to identify it. But yeah, he gave he gave a great send-off um dot for like everyone going out, and he and I had a nice chat about how he he goes to these different events and bagpipes. I don't know how one finds a bagpipe recovery, Jenny. All right. Well, what are we talking about today?

Steve: 8:15

We are talking about the hallowed growd. Yes, and I and I said that grode with a G.

Kristin: 8:22

So we're we're saying that we're talking about the hallowed growth, but what we're really talking to be talking about, which is in the spirit of the 50k that we just mentioned, is this idea of how to plan a route that pulls together maybe disparate parts. Um but let's take a quick break and we'll come back and and dive right into it.

Steve: 8:47

Okay.

Kristin: 8:53

Okay, we're back. So as you said, we're gonna talk about the hallowed growth. And the hallowed grode is what is it?

Steve: 9:04

You know, there's one we'll backtrack here on the name, real quick. Yes. Grode is a combination of gravel and road, and it was a is it real gra or did you make it up? No, I didn't make it up. It it came out and it maybe people thought it would take off in terms of a term, and it did not. Right so and it it hasn't. Sort of like brifter, right? The brake shifter that we all have on our road bikes. Right? If you think about it, the shifters integrated with the brakes, people were calling them brifters, people still sometimes call it brifters, but that name never really took off.

Kristin: 9:42

Honestly, say I've never heard the word brifter.

Steve: 9:45

Grode never really took off either. But it fits the and it when this was conceived of this idea for this ride. It was an idea of mine that came about years and years ago, and then it took us it took us years to actually start it before I had thought about it.

Kristin: 10:06

I was gonna say it took you years to actually tell me about it. Yes. Before we even so I didn't know it had been kicking around your brain for a while.

Steve: 10:13

And it's not necessarily an original idea, but it was designed to be a scavenger hunt ride. Okay. And the idea was that you have certain waypoints, we will call them.

Kristin: 10:23

Okay.

Steve: 10:24

Things that people would have to get to and then take a picture of and sort of prove that they were there. The original concept was find your way to that waypoint. So let's say you have six waypoints scattered around the area, and you can go to each one in any order you want. So you're trying to find the best way. You can do it in where you actually have it a race. So it's sort of the first team, if you will, because it is designed to be a team uh uh ride, and the first team to do it in the all the waypoints in the fastest time would win.

Kristin: 11:03

Right. And that's how we did it the first year. So and and you called it the hallowed grode because many of the points we were getting to were cemeteries. We're in eastern Massachusetts. We got a ton of historic very old historic adorable cemeteries, and you thought, oh, it's a really cool way for people to see all this cool stuff that we have. And and you actually had painted rocks and you left rocks at little stones at each location, and you had to actually find the pile of stones, take up the stone, finish your route, and then take a picture with all the stones. Yeah. I knew where fastest we can have done. But there was a problem when you saw the route everybody did at the end. Not a problem, but when you saw how everybody got to their waypoints, what did you think?

Steve: 11:53

The spirit of this, which is in the title of Grode, was that it was designed to be a gravel ride, and we're gonna put that in air quotes. So m trying to be off-road. Yes, but we don't have we you can do so much off-road around here, but if you're just going from waypoint to waypoint and trying to find the best way, you're going to be taking 80% road.

Kristin: 12:21

Right. Because so you didn't want to just show the cemeteries, you wanted to show the trails. The trail. You wanted to show that there were so many fun ways to get from point A to point B. And what I think you realized when you saw what people did for the first year is that that's not people's natural inclination. Yeah. Or they're just not root planners like that. Right. Right? So the next year, did we only do one year where it was find it yourself?

Steve: 12:53

I think we did, yes. Okay.

Kristin: 12:54

So then the next year.

Steve: 12:56

Oh, maybe we did two.

Kristin: 12:58

Maybe we did two. Yes. I feel like we probably did too. So then after a couple of years of that, where you were were realizing that people were just gonna hit the road, you then started to create the route that people had to follow or had to follow if they also wanted to get it.

Steve: 13:17

Yeah, so now it has morphed into here is the course, and along this course are the waypoints to come to and find. Yes. I mean, you are we say fine, but there they are. Right. You follow. They're not hidden, right? It's not like geocaching.

Kristin: 13:35

Well, you had the first year, there was at least one I could not find when I was out with my friends. It was like a it was like we did have a look, yes, the trees.

Steve: 13:45

Those branch TPs.

Kristin: 13:46

And I never found it. So they're a little more obvious.

Steve: 13:50

Yes, there it was all, you're right. There was an aspect of it that it was slightly off the path, and you had to find it.

Kristin: 13:57

Yeah, you realize people couldn't couldn't find it.

Steve: 14:00

Right.

Kristin: 14:00

They couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Steve: 14:02

Yeah.

Kristin: 14:04

And the other thing is we got rid of the race element of it. So it doesn't matter who time is not taken into account. First year we did, we've awarded a prize, forever did it faster. But then now it's just based, it's a random draw based on the number of these waypoints you document. Yes. So if you get to seven, you get seven entries. How do you decide? So this is really, I think, the real conversation we've gonna have today is how do you come up with these routes?

Steve: 14:44

Well, as you know, I settle in constantly look at maps. So I'm always, always looking at maps.

Kristin: 14:50

Yes.

Steve: 14:51

So coming up with a route, and whether it is a mountain bike route, say for the 50K, which I didn't do this year, um, or the Hallow Grow route. It's this massive combination of using existing trails that I've ridden and I know, yeah, and we are trying to use trails that are gravel uh bike capable.

Kristin: 15:18

So on a mountain bike ride, it is a it is not a mountain bike ride, it is designed for gravel bikes.

Steve: 15:25

Mountain bikes work great for it. There is a decent amount of road though.

Kristin: 15:29

Yeah.

Steve: 15:30

So I take in the easier of those trails. Everything I want has to be ridden on a gravel bike. There is a little bit of aspect there that I can ride almost anything on my gravel bike, and not everybody can. So I do get that feedback sometimes.

Kristin: 15:44

From who from who do you get that feedback?

Steve: 15:48

No, from like say Doug, we saw today. So he would say, I would say, Well, what are you talking about? That trail was completely rideable on a gravel bike. He'd be like, No. I think But he's not a mountain biker either.

Kristin: 16:00

No, he's not. I think that's the the biggest challenge for you as a any any route that you create or any ride you're planning is you are a most excellent rider and you're fast. And so that was why it was important we went and tested it last weekend because I'm a strong rider, I do mountain bike, but I'm probably more like the average rider. Right. So it is, I think last year the route was over 30 miles.

Steve: 16:38

It was, it was about 32.

Kristin: 16:40

And I remember saying to you, it's too long. It's too long.

Steve: 16:44

Right, which it's and most of the people we know who are doing gravel rides and gravel events, 32 is not long. It's a nor I mean it's short for many cases, but this around here we don't have gravel. We don't have it's not gravel, it is mixed terrain. Right. This is and so you are on very, very slow trails most of the time, which are in many cases mountain bike trails or portions of trails that are in a mountain bike area.

Kristin: 17:18

Right.

Steve: 17:19

So the going is slow, and then you on top of that, because you're stopping these waypoints and you're taking pictures, and when you're with a team, and every and every added rider to a team just slows the whole group down a little bit more, things happen, all that kind of stuff. So it can be you really bring the average pace of a group down to sub 10 miles per hour, and then yeah, it gets to be it gets to be long. And also the days are very short now. Yeah, sun sets at 4 30.

Kristin: 17:49

Yeah, so during our testing, like we were talking about this just this morning. There was one section where there was a road option, you could go up the road straight up fast, it would take you five minutes, or there was a parallel trail. Trail, which we took, yes, and it took 40 minutes, yeah.

Steve: 18:09

It would easily add 40 minutes on. And so it was adding maybe an extra quarter mile for distance and about 40 minutes of time, yeah.

Kristin: 18:19

Well, and also because this is a scavenger hunt ride, we're also trying to add cool things for people to see and even learn, right? So if we weren't doing the scavenger hunt element, then maybe that would have been fine because you were gonna take a right and keep going on the trails. But we we ended up going, we wanted to go into downtown downtown Hopkinton for the waypoint. So you have to balance all of those too. You have to balance the number of miles, the number of hours it'll take, the average rider, so your wife, the stops that were, and also not too many stops. There'll be a couple of times you're like, do we want to have them stop here? So we just had them stop, and there's something right there. And how many times can we ask them to stop to take pictures? Because there's lots of cool stuff that maybe you wouldn't normally and will it be easy to find. Like there were a couple of places where you're like, oh, that's a really cool tree, but is everyone gonna notice it, or is it gonna be like the TP that you're like, maybe people won't notice it? And then, yeah, and then finally on the waypoints, some of them are in cemeteries, and so we want to be respectful.

Steve: 19:35

Correct. You have to balance that. Do we have a group of eight riders tromping through to the back of a cemetery? In some cases, yeah, it's okay. Uh, there are some of these really small ones where like the last person was buried in 1910, right? Um, you know, and maybe the older it gets, the more. Or you feel like you can kind of go in there and and do more things. But we really mostly kept it like we one, we ride through a big cemetery on the on the roads. Yep. And there was a bench there that we used.

Kristin: 20:15

Which by the way, if you put a bench in a cemetery, you're asking people to sit on it.

Steve: 20:18

Exactly. That seemed another cemetery we didn't have anybody go into. We just had uh pictures taken at the front sign.

Kristin: 20:26

Yes, right on the because there was a stone wall right there, and they could go right there.

Steve: 20:30

And then a new addition this year is an old cemetery where they actually have a well, I don't want to we'll call it a dirt-ish road, but where they access it.

Kristin: 20:41

Kind of around the back road.

Steve: 20:42

And it wraps around, and this is a this is a very small, it's maybe one acre.

Kristin: 20:46

Yeah.

Steve: 20:47

And so very old. And that wraps around, and then we had a really neat headstone at the very, very back edge.

Kristin: 20:54

It looked like a millstone.

Steve: 20:56

So it did look like a millstone.

Kristin: 20:57

It was wow, like it was and it said things like what was amazing to me about that one is it says trails end on one side, and then it says life is real on the other side. And I was like, who would decided? Why? Like, why are these things on here? Right? They obviously meant something to somebody, but like you just want to know. And that's my favorite part of this thing that you've created is that normally people would just drive by that cemetery, probably never notice it. Might not even know it's might not even know it's there. But now you've sent somebody into it, and they're looking at the headstones and they're looking at the beautiful designs of them, the beautiful carvings of them, they're reading them. And I think there is a homage to that, right? Absolutely. So it's it's um, I know people are sensitive about cemeteries. We have ours at cemetery across the street where it does not like, you know, no bikes, no nothing, no, you know, and you're like, but who's coming in here? Like it have someone in here and and sit and enjoy the view. And so I keep saying if we ever get buried, I'm gonna put a bike rack next to ours. Go pull on up. We have some tools hanging there.

Steve: 22:20

Yeah. Yeah, so and so the route I have to come up with a route that incorporates places that I want people to go. Yeah. So in many cases, it's oh, I want to use that cemetery, and I want this cemetery, and I want to use that statue. So getting those all linked up.

Kristin: 22:37

Yep.

Steve: 22:38

And so I will look at places I know I've ridden, obviously looking at all the maps, yep, and looking at Strava heat maps uh often. So, and now everybody else has a heat map like Rywood GPS has a heat map now, which is where I create the route in Rywood GPS. Yes, yep. Garmin has heat maps, which they've had forever, and using all of those tools to basically kind of come up with a route. And one of the hardest things for me is keeping people off the trails. And as you talked about the difference in the time between the road and the parallel trail, yeah, I want to use every bit of dirt I can, keep you know, keeping mostly off the road as much as possible. But if I did that, it would take eight hours.

Kristin: 23:31

I mean, so that happened during part of our tests, right? We were kind of near the end, wrapping up. We are on glorious smooth new asphalt, just gorgeous.

Steve: 23:45

And you're on a very, very back road through these towering trees canopy over the road. There's a very nice road.

Kristin: 23:53

If you are gonna road ride, this is it, this is what you want, and you go, let's turn left here into the woods. And I'm like, What are we doing? Like, what? And and so sure enough, we bump through the woods, it's fine. We pop out, I go, Would we have just completed? He said, You said yes. And I was like, Why would you take us off that beautiful road? Because it's dirt, yeah. You definitely, yes, you're right though. It is it is balancing, especially I think at where the dirt is in the time of the ride too makes matter, makes a difference. So at the beginning of this year's route, there's quite a bit of not just a little bit of walking, a little bit of hike a bike, right? Because there were some some wood bit.

Steve: 24:41

Oh, there's some wood planks to go over some wet areas.

Kristin: 24:43

Yeah, and you were like, I don't know, maybe I'll take this out. And my opinion, which I hold to, is it was at the beginning of the ride. So humor is high, adventure is high, hike a bike fine. Don't throw that in at mile 20 of 22, then I don't want it. Like, I don't my I've now I'm looking to wrap up. And so like front end dirty, little silly, near to the end of it when it's like, okay, let's we're done now, let's wrap this up a little less. But you're right, your inclination is just we were going through one neighborhood, and you're like, maybe here, no, maybe here, no, maybe here.

Steve: 25:25

I was just trying to get back to the trail.

Kristin: 25:27

You just wanted to get to the trail so desperately, only for and we had and I had us go into a trail, but it was completely washed out.

Steve: 25:34

I think a beaver dam might have submerged this section of trail. Right. So we were had to go back to the road, and I was trying to find a new route down to where I could see it was dry.

Kristin: 25:44

It just was like just stay on the road.

Steve: 25:45

Just stay on the road because we were almost at that summit, Secretary.

Kristin: 25:49

Yeah, but you're right, because every mile, I mean, one mile of road versus one mile of trail, what would you say?

Steve: 25:58

Well, if you think about it this way, some of those trails, if you're on the road and you're just casually pacing it, then you're probably a casual pace might be 12 miles an hour. That's probably slow, but you're in a group, you're chit-chatting. But in the trail with a group, on a lot of these trails we did, the average pace might be four miles per hour, five miles per hour. It can be walking or you know, fast walking, slow jogging pace. And so it's a big difference. A third of the speed? Yep. Yeah.

Kristin: 26:29

Yeah. Now, do you think I mean you mentioned um riders who don't mound bike, but do you try to take into account what you the lowest common denominator on abilities is gonna be? Or okay.

Steve: 26:45

I uh you can't take the lowest common on or you average uh average, I guess. And knowing that in some cases, while I could ride it, people just have to walk over a rock or a every biker section's in hiker.

Kristin: 27:01

So yeah. And you I know some now this is a free event, and we'll talk about how we got to calling it what we called it and how we promote whatever, but some events will be like, you have to ride this bike, and they get real details. It needs, you know, this is the type of bike you need, this is the we're not that exact, we're more like pick your bike, none is right.

Steve: 27:29

The the spirit of the ride is a gravel bike.

Kristin: 27:33

Okay.

Steve: 27:34

Do obviously do it, uh we're gonna say do it on whatever bike you want. We do say 40 millimeter tires or greater. Okay, and I rode it on 50 millimeter tires on my gravel bike at probably 22 psi, very low. Yeah, and it was fine for me. Okay, so but yeah, if you tried it on a all-road bike, it's say 35 millimeter tires, you're gonna you it was not you were gonna have a hard time in some of those woods.

Kristin: 28:08

Yeah, I mean, in hindsight, I well, first of all, I think I'm gonna do it next weekend, but I took my gravel bike. And as I've said on this show before, I've really become a purist when it comes to gravel. That's a mixed terrain ride. That's what we're doing. So I'm fairly sure I'm going out on my mountain bike next time.

Steve: 28:30

You would have a better time on your mountain bike.

Kristin: 28:32

Yeah, because I think you have to decide on a mixed terrain ride, you have to you have to basically decide where your compromise is. Yeah. Right? Are you going to be on a bike where you're most comfortable and most control on the technical areas? The compromise being when you hit that smooth, beautiful pavement I was talking about, you're dragging. Or you flip it. I tend to be I tend to be more on the side of um one than the other. But it's I don't know, you have always done a really good job. I think it goes beyond I I don't know if there's a way for you to even explain your ability to put together a route because you've always been really good at it. Like even on the road. It's not just that you're obsessed with maps, you seem to be able to connect areas that the average person just would not think, even looking at a map, wouldn't be like, yeah, I can totally let's say I could connect this to this. And you seem to remember things like we're ri driving around or we're riding around, and you're like, aha. I saw an entry here.

Steve: 29:46

I do remember things like that.

Kristin: 29:48

Okay.

Steve: 29:48

Yes. Uh, in fact, like in Iceland this year, we're driving down the highway towards the town uh where our hotel was and where the event took place.

Kristin: 30:00

Yeah.

Steve: 30:02

And as we're driving down, I go, I was telling everybody, ah, see that gas station right there? That's where we parked, and then they shuttled us up to the top of that mountain over there where we rode down all day to get back to our van at this gas station. And then we're heading down further, go, oh, see that guy up though, see up over there, guys? Like that we we rode from here, we rode around the valley up to the top of that peak, swam in the geothermal pool river, then rode up. Are we from the last white rudder? Yes, from 2017. So yeah, so this was in 2017. I was talking about the ride we took, and so here in 2025, I'm pointing out all the places where we rode in Iceland.

Kristin: 30:41

I am convinced, I am convinced that there are some people that just have a better navigational system than others. You know, that just can just remember a place and they know which way is north, and then there's me who gets lost.

Steve: 30:58

See, part of that with me though is that I imprint some of this stuff by looking at the maps after the fact.

Kristin: 31:09

Oh, okay. Do you like maps or do you look at Google Earth? Like, what's your preferred to like look?

Steve: 31:16

So Google well, Google Maps and Google Earth, okay, and ride with GPS. So ride with GPS is super important because they have all the different map types. So you have Ride with GPS's own map, which and then you have open street maps. Open street maps is incredibly important because that will have most of the trails on there.

Kristin: 31:39

Okay.

Steve: 31:39

Sometimes you're looking at trail forks.

Kristin: 31:42

Yep.

Steve: 31:42

Because that will have trails and difficulty levels. Okay. That is more so if I'm looking, if I'm trying to design a route in a place I've never been.

Kristin: 31:54

Got.

Steve: 31:54

Right?

Kristin: 31:55

Yep. Yep.

Steve: 31:56

So it's it is smashing all of the different sources together to come up, come up with this. Oh, and then Google Street View, super important. And other map street views, so that I can, because I will often see a trail and say, I don't think that's really there. So then I go to Street View, and hopefully there's a street view of the area, and then I'm scanning on Street View to see if I can see the trail coming off the road. Okay. And that's that is also really crucial.

Kristin: 32:30

Is Ride with GPS the best of the route planners in your estimation for this kind of for any kind? Because I know some people like I think it is. They, you know, I they have Strava, you can plant a route.

Steve: 32:43

I've tried using Strava to plant a route. It may have gotten better last time I used it, it was not good whatsoever. Okay. Trail forks was horrendously bad. Okay. Uh, just their route building system constantly made errors and it had and it was difficult to correct things. It was it was difficult to change things. Okay. So and I would say Tickety Brad 10, 15 years ago, maybe there were a lot of different online sites to create roots.

Kristin: 33:13

Okay.

Steve: 33:14

And Ryewood GPS was just one of these small little sites that was out there using basically OpenStreetMaps in many cases. And they rose to the top, uh, you know, and where others just went away. Right. So I to me, Ryewood GPS is the best tool.

Kristin: 33:38

And you have a premium account for the record. You I do. You have a premium account. I don't. Right. Which is fine. So I don't really do route planning, and I have enough capability that I can favorite one of yours and have it immediately go into my garment, which is the final piece of any route that you build, any Steve the Buckeye route, you must have a navigation system.

Steve: 34:05

In our area here, we're so many roads, so many old 200 plus mile year old roads. Yeah. They're just twisty and windy, old, old trails t going every which way, intersections everywhere. And so it's not say out west where you have lots of just gravel roads, but but they're very they're very few and far between anyway. And you're doing uh sort of big big miles in that case.

Kristin: 34:38

This is yeah, and a ride like this. I mean, I'm if someone wants to use their phone, you you can try that.

Steve: 34:46

Yeah, and you can use the ride with GPS app on your phone too.

Kristin: 34:48

Just bring a battery back up because uh a power bank because your phone this is a three-hour ride for these 22 miles, and phones struggle with being able to navigate and do all the other things they're doing. Yeah. Phones are doing a bunch of stuff.

Steve: 35:07

Yeah, and because there's so much going on, you kind of need to have it up on the screen the whole time.

Kristin: 35:11

Yeah. And the other thing with the courses that's critical is you need it to be accessible. We need to make sure we're not, you know, trespassing anywhere or that out everywhere that we like there's a beautiful area off of um off of the upper Charles River Trail, Fatima Shrine, that you might think would be a lovely place to send your bikes through. And then you get there and you realize the sign that says no bikes, right? Right. So it's really important that we balance all of these things because we also want to be good representatives of cycling, right? We can't be sending people out there into the world to you know break breaking the law. But that actually comes up to at the beginning, why did you want to, when you first presented this idea to me, you were very clear. You did not want it to be a Steve the Bike Guy event. You wanted it to be hallowed growed, branded as hallowed growed, nobody would knew, nobody could know, nobody could know. And so it has its own Instagram, it has its own website. Why why the first year did you not want to take credit? I'll say. Because I've I've been asked, like, why don't you guys take more credit for it? We're taking credit now. Are are we? Is this going out live? Maybe.

Steve: 36:43

So I just won I just wanted to keep that mystery aspect of it. Yeah. Yeah. Just it was where did this come from? Who does it? No idea.

Kristin: 36:52

And it was wild. I was out on my first year with one of the teams riding, and we met people out there, and they were like, oh, so cool. Like people who were obviously out there looking for the colored rocks, which was very neat. And then even one of my friends, oh, we were talking to the group, and I had named the character who who runs the Halloween bird Instagram Jillian. And the guy's like, This is so great, this is so great. And my friend goes, She's Jillian. And I was like, dude, the worst. But one of the other friends on our team was like, wait a minute, you're Jillian? And I was like, okay, well, I guess we did a good job of hiding it, because even the people I was riding with didn't know that we were in charge of it. And it's still a little, I think somebody said it's the worst-kept secret because we've kept it up. And one of the reasons we've kept it up, at least from my standpoint, from a total branding Steve the Bike Guy, is the hallowed growth does not fit with Steve the Bike Guy. Like Steve the Bike is bright and shiny and blues and oranges and whatever. And the hallowed growth has a whole other tone to it. Like, so basically, the beginning of October, the Instagram lights up and we start talking about the upcoming ride and how to sign up. And we try to give clues and I write it in a different voice, and I post pictures that are all kind of grim.

Steve: 38:26

Yeah, it is a Halloween-based ride. And depending on when Halloween falls, is you know, this year we had we have done it where it's over a weekend. So that your team has the Saturday and Sunday to do it.

Kristin: 38:39

Yeah.

Steve: 38:40

And Halloween fell on a Friday, so now we're sort of past Halloween. We decided to make it all week, give people time to do it all week.

Kristin: 38:47

We had a couple of weeks. Yeah, we had a couple of racers ask us if it could be ask Jillian if it could be extended, so we and and make it, yeah, more of a harvest celebration. But from a again, a pure branding standpoint, it doesn't match. Right? It doesn't, it's no, it doesn't.

Steve: 39:06

And I have to say, the Hallow Grown Instagram is spectacular. I mean, pictures, pictures of really cool cemetery features. And of course, you add you know all of sepia and black and white and all that stuff.

Kristin: 39:22

The grungy filters.

Steve: 39:24

But they're gorgeous pictures, and they're and it's really, it's really a beautiful Instagram. It's well worth taking a look at.

Kristin: 39:31

Thank you. And they're all real, I will say. And it's all real. It's not, yeah. I don't use maybe the first year I might have pulled a stock photo, but they're not all I think they're even all New England. I try to keep them to something you could legitimately see if you were going through some of a local cemetery. And I do collect the photos kind of throughout the year whenever we go through a cemetery or anywhere that

Steve: 40:00

The first year I took a lot of those photos at cemetery, some of which we didn't even use, but just found a lot of great but it's another one picture of it's another one where it's tricky because we always want to be respectful.

Kristin: 40:16

And so I try not to include any names, right?

Steve: 40:21

Of the the family which you're on the great because a lot of the the set the headstones from a certain period, I think in the late 1800s, they said mother and father.

Kristin: 40:32

Mother, father, uh, but even the pieces I take, like I'm not gonna use any, I'll use angels, but um if I saw a like a Jesus statue, I'm not gonna use that. Like I try to be very respectful of the type of um statues and and and monuments that we share, but they're also so beautiful. There's so many beautiful or weird. There's just weird. If you look really close and you see the different, you know, there was one from last year that looked like a I don't know, it's an elk head or something, and I think it's from a fraternal organization. And this person was a part of, but it was just a metal placard of this this thing that looked like kind of an elk, could have been from Lord of the Rings, could have been from legend. And again, you add a filter to it, and they also have all these little you just realize how many little statues are are hiding in bushes or near, you know, maybe little angels or or little trolls or little there's just banana things in cemeteries, and then beyond that, just cool statues, you know. Downtown Hofkington has a statue of the Hoits. Yes, it has the starter for the marathon. I think there's five statues in downtown Hopkinton.

Steve: 41:53

Yeah, in the in the center.

Kristin: 41:55

So there's just so many that once again, you just kind of drive by.

Steve: 41:59

And that's what I really like about this is that it gets people to I wanted to show people the trails and get them onto certain trails, especially on a gravel bike they might never ever see or take. Yep. And then yeah, f here's a cool cemetery, here's a cool statue, a little history plaque, all that kind of stuff.

Kristin: 42:19

Yeah, watching you, watching you look down and read the history plaque of one of the you're like, even you know, we're discovering the the different options. So I think it's really, it's really fun. And so this year we're gonna have they're gonna have two winners. We're going to have the random draw for the number of waypoints. Yes. And then because last year's teams blew us away with their efforts to oh the costumes and the pageantry of the photos they took in each waypoint was unbelievable. So this year we're going to have uh a judging for the uh the spirit of the grode and who best road the spirit of the growd. I'm not calling it the spirit of gravel because it is not a gravel ride. I just cannot reinforce that enough when somebody says, but is it gravel? No, it's eastern Massachusetts. It cannot be gravel, it can't be picturing gravel, and we've talked about doing other ones, and I'm I'm still kind of thinking it would be awesome. Maybe they'd be more Steve the bike guy themed, but we could do a mountain bike one in the summer. We've talked about doing once road, like a um uh a scenic grode scenic road where I wanted to do where it was all the kind of overlooks and the and then you know, did you do like an ice cream grode or food scrape? Like one where it's like you know the stops are gonna be places you can eat. Yeah. That'd be all day. Coffee grode. Coffee grode starts with coffee, goes to lunch, ends with ice cream. Ho ho ho. Anyway, but I think the scenic grode, that would be a really fun like summer, spring, summer one. No. You know. Anyway, well, that stay tuned. Is the hallowed growth? Um, let's take if people are interested in checking out the hallowed growth at any time. It's at hallowedgroad.com. Yep. And then also we have an Instagram, which means we do have a Facebook page too.

Steve: 44:30

But it's running through November 9th.

Kristin: 44:33

Yeah, it runs through November 9th. And there's also a Strabo Club so people can connect because that's actually how you learn more and enter all of that. So I feel like this year it's really rocking and rolling. I'm excited. All right, let's take a break. All right, we're back. So speaking of November and fall and hallowed growth.

Steve: 45:04

The weather always takes a I call instant turn when you hit November. It really does. And because our birthdays are early November, I sort of notice that. Whereas I October is a fabulous month. And then you hit November, and of course the clocks just turn back, sunsets at 4:30, and the rain and the cold set in instantly.

Kristin: 45:27

So I was on one of my favorite Facebook groups, the mountain bike ladies, and I noticed a couple of questions related to how to dress, because the weather has changed. And what I find, so I thought we could talk about some of our favorite autumnal this time of year. There's a whole nother conversation to be had about winter gear, but this is a tricky time of year because a ride can start cold and end hot or start warm and cold.

Steve: 46:03

The Sherbert Decay is always like that.

Kristin: 46:05

Yeah. So I thought we could maybe share some of our favorite autumnal riding gear. But my first question is in running, when I started running, one of my friends was like, you always dress for 20 degrees warmer than you are. So if it is 50 degrees when you start your run, dress as if you were running in 70, which sounds crazy, but almost always works because you just your inner core heats up to a point. It was a it was a great rule of thumb. I think I saw somebody share that if you're riding on the road, you should do 20 less. So yeah, I would agree with that, probably. Right? Yeah, then you should dress like it's 30. And then there's the grode.

Steve: 46:53

And then yes.

Kristin: 46:54

And mountain biking.

Steve: 46:56

Mountain biking is also easier than the grode, so to speak, because of the on in the woods, on the road aspect of it. Mountain biking in the woods, the woods are always warmer when it's cold and breezy outside. Yeah. So I would say you're dressing for uh warmer.

Kristin: 47:19

Right, because you're gonna heat up. If you're kind of like mountain biking and cross-country skiing, I think are kind of similar from the you're you know you're gonna heat up, you know you're gonna get sweaty, so you want to get some wicking and some layers, right? And that's the big thing is the easily removed layers, right? Yes. Um, yeah.

Steve: 47:43

And I would go, I often wear shorts mountain biking down in well into the 40s, where of course you would I would never do that on the road.

Kristin: 47:54

Oh, that's true.

Steve: 47:54

Right. Yes. Uh, that's just too cold.

Kristin: 47:56

Yeah. I also have my own personal rule of thumb, which is everything Steve is wearing plus one.

Steve: 48:02

Yeah, that actually works quite well for you.

Kristin: 48:04

That actually does work really well. I we're wearing the same, I'm in trouble.

Steve: 48:08

Uh I have always meant to sort of take notes and maybe a law or write down what I'm wearing. I do have a very good ability to judge what I should wear riding and nail it.

Kristin: 48:20

So you're gonna be no help today. No.

Steve: 48:23

And and then I always say, oh, I should kind of write that down and maybe my Strava notes or something and keep track of that. I never do. And yes, I always do seem to dress appropriately.

Kristin: 48:35

Yeah. For the most part. You aren't as weather sensitive as I am too. Like you're not as cold sensitive as I am. For example, when we go skiing before the onset of helmets, you never wore hats.

Steve: 48:49

Yeah, and I would say I could probably go down to about 15 degrees before I needed a hat. Yeah. Now that has upped since my youth. Okay. Uh, but that's what it was in my 20s and 30s. It was about 15 degrees before I wanted a hat on.

Kristin: 49:04

Yeah. You would sometimes have to cover your ears.

Steve: 49:06

Where like I Yeah, so that yeah, then the next thing would be a headband, but I couldn't wear a hat because I was too hot.

Kristin: 49:12

Yeah. So for me, Red, once it starts to get chilly, the things I have to protect are my ears. In part, just cold air going in hurts, maybe. So a headband that can cover my ears, but then can also be pushed up over my ears and not be too and still serve as like a headband. That's one of my favorite things to use. And a buff. Can we just talk about buffs? This is these are I have a gazillion of these light buffs. I think these are magic because they do this magical job of locking the heat into your jacket or your jersey, and then when you're like, oh, I'm hot, you take it off just as a little buff, and it's like, ah, yes, like without suddenly your whole upper body breathes.

Steve: 50:03

Yeah.

Kristin: 50:04

So that's why I like a light buff because it's easily removed and it's easily stashable.

Steve: 50:12

Yeah, and I only use a buff fat biking in the snow.

Kristin: 50:15

Yeah, again, we are different temperatures, you might I wear a buff all the time. I I mean they're good for various reasons, but I have a bunch of these really light ones, and then in the winter I have heavier ones. But a buff and a vest are my two, like once it starts to get chilly, you're like buff and vest, because they both you get that extra layer, and they're thin, so they're easily removed and squashed into back. Because that's, I think that's the other thing, like you need to be able to get these things if you have too many heavy layers and then you try to take them off. Like I was riding with girlfriends the other day, and one of them was literally wearing our hoodie sweatshirt, and she took it off and I was like, What am I gonna do with this thing? Right, right. And I think her husband was wearing something heavy too, and he stashed it under a rock and then dropped a pin to be like, is where I would think back to it because I like it. Right. So if you don't want to be stashing your clothing along the way, they have to be lightweight enough.

Steve: 51:16

Yeah, I always say though, if you're like the beginning of, say, the Shervin 50k, right? That's all that is a long event ride.

Kristin: 51:24

Yep.

Steve: 51:24

You could be out there for hours and hours, but you should, and because it's in October, you always know it's gonna be cold in the morning and then warming up. And so you're dressing for that warm-up time, and you should actually start the ride slightly cold.

Kristin: 51:41

Yes. Yeah, I hate that.

Steve: 51:43

And if you start slightly cold, you know you're gonna be okay, usually.

Kristin: 51:47

Yeah, I agree. I think it's I mean, that's the biggest challenge where you're standing there shivering. It is, it's just yeah, also not getting so cold at the beginning that you're miserable, but also try to judge. I don't know how you do this if you're not the two of us, like what we call the energy. Yes, we do. So there are like you walk outside sometimes and it's cold. We get like, oh, I can feel that energy coming. There is there is warmth coming. So you dress knowing that you can just feel that that it's gonna get warmer.

Steve: 52:20

I have turned you on to this, and now you're big blue warmer.

Kristin: 52:23

It totally works because there are times you walk out and you go, There is no energy happening today, it is never getting warmer. We are we are at the maximum breakup fleece. Yeah, right.

Steve: 52:34

Yeah, and there are days where it's 48 and overcast and it's going to 50, right, and overcast. And you can you can feel that there's zero energy out there, and then other days, well, where if you're gonna have a 15 degree temperature rise, you can almost look at that and say, wow, we're a lot of times you don't realize that you're gonna be gaining a degree, and sometimes every 15 minutes, right? And that is a significant amount of energy in the air, and that's gonna reflect in what you should wear.

Kristin: 53:07

Layers also like we were on when we were doing unpaved, I was wearing um my jersey, arm warmers, the buff, the vest, and and we had a lot of energy in the air, so off came the arm warmers, off came the buff, up off came the vest, all thin things that stashed really well. We were riding with someone who was wearing a very thin but long sleeve jersey, and he was like, This was a tactic, strategic error, because you just wanted those arms to be so it's it's those kind of modular pieces that I have come to really appreciate.

Steve: 53:49

Arm warmers are one of the just best pieces of cycling equipment in for especially for cool weather.

Kristin: 53:58

Yeah. And we have a pair, they come in all thicknesses, but we bought some years ago. We got them branded, they're from JackRoo that are basically just lycra. Yeah, not lined at all. They're just lycra. And I love them because they don't get super sweaty. You can wear them longer for longer, staying just as warm as you need. But then again, when you pull them off, they go right into your pocket. Where we have other ones that have some fleece inside them, and I don't like those as much. They get sweaty too. So I love those. In fact, when I gave up my vest at Unpaved, and then we couldn't find it later because somebody had brought it back to base camp for me. They're like, we can give you another vest. I was like, Oh, I don't care about the vest, but my arm warmers are in them, and I'm gonna need those back. Like they're they're 10 years old, I know, but I they're the perfect, and I think that's what happens to you. You get your pieces that you would really come.

Steve: 54:58

My favorite arm warmers are bellwethers, and they are they're definitely somewhere between 25 and 30 years old.

Kristin: 55:07

Yeah, yeah. I believe it. That that good, as I said, you find a piece and then you just use it. Let's talk about the under, like the the the one layer, the first layer. Um, there is you have I have it right here. I spend most of my life listening to you ask me where your gray undershirt is. Yeah. This is this is it.

Steve: 55:28

This is one of my this is one of my favorite pieces. So this is a craft base layer, but sleeveless. And I think it might be the only sleeveless thing I own. And there's something about this. It is, it is have you considered polymer. A mid-weight. No, I've looked and I've you see lots of these very thin, sleeveless, lightweight base layers that are just meant to be sort of a wicking layer.

Kristin: 55:52

Yeah.

Steve: 55:52

But this is this is a midweight thermal.

Kristin: 55:56

What is it?

Steve: 55:57

Is what is your it's probably polypropylene.

Kristin: 56:00

Okay, because I can't it's so old I can't read.

Steve: 56:02

No, no, it is very old. And it is one of my favorite base layers. I have a couple.

Kristin: 56:08

I'm gonna say this is your favorite.

Steve: 56:10

I have a long sleeve version of that, and then I have a set another long sleeve version which has wind block center uh section. So that is also one of my favorites in particularly cold, cold weather.

Kristin: 56:24

Well, that's what I'm saying. What is nice about I have a couple of base layers, not like this one, but a couple of base tank top. And what I like about them is it doesn't add the weight to your arms. Not the weight, but like the layers to your arms. Like there's just a point where I'm like, there is too much fabric right here at my elbow. So I like a tank top, but it's just funny because if there's one piece I've heard you say to me on multiple occasions, have you seen my? It's this one. I'm gonna, I'm gonna like chip it soon to make sure you're right. Can I find my iPhone with your tank top? Half the time it's in a bag from some event you did that you didn't empty. Right. We find it like three weeks later. But this needs to be cloned because this is the this is the piece that you really say you really like. And then and then in that same spirit, there's vests.

Steve: 57:18

Yes, the gilet vests. That is the that is the correct term, but yes.

Kristin: 57:24

I love a vest. I love a vest. I think vests are the most underappreciated.

Steve: 57:29

Which they give out as the is the clothing piece for the PMC unpaved.

Kristin: 57:34

So now I have a lot of baths.

Steve: 57:35

So now we have a lot of them, and they are fantastic pieces of equipment. I I had never really owned one before then, and they are great.

Kristin: 57:43

Yeah, again, it gives you that. I think whenever it starts to get chilly, for me, it's ears, core, fingers, toast. Everything else, we're not into cold, right? Again, cold weather's different. We're just getting into I need to keep those pieces warm, and then I know I'm gonna warm up because it is still October or November. So there's energy. What else? How do I then get this stuff off without stopping too? Because that's the other thing. Anything I just talked about, I can get off while I'm riding. So I don't initially have to stop to strip and take off various later so you put that.

Steve: 58:22

I my saddlebag on my Gravo bike is not very big. And in there, well, because my tools on my bike and because my tube with plugs are on the bike, I had two or three CO2s. The CO2 had maybe oh, and a spare tube. Yes, a spare TP2 tube. And still, I got my vest shoved into that saddlebag, into a small compact saddlebag. I had all that, and I got my vest shoved in there too when I was done with it.

Kristin: 58:53

Does it still have a massive amount of wrinkles? Because I think you had it trapped in there for two weeks before you.

Steve: 58:58

I did, yeah, yeah. I should have taken that out earlier.

Kristin: 59:02

Like one of those tubes with the snake in it and went.

Steve: 59:06

Yeah, pretty much.

Kristin: 59:08

Yeah, and the thing about vests is that they are multi-weight, also. So we've got kind of the light rain short and rain sheddings. We have the light one that we get from Unpaved. We have from Verge, Steve the Bike Guy has a wind blocking one, and that is also one of my favorite pieces of equipment because it's got again, it just stops it hitting. Even the first unpaved we did, which was rainy and there was that storm coming. I had the I had the wind blocker under my official EMC just because a good vest helps all the time, but that wind blocker just gave you that little extra. I did pay for it. Man, I think the wind blocker vest cost more than the jacket. I was like, I don't even think it sleeps. Yeah. But my friend said, trust me. Where once you wear it, you'll realize that it's worth it. And on a cost per wear basis, I'm I'm getting it done. Another thing I picked up for meal. So yeah, and then uh gloves.

Steve: 1:00:15

Gloves. Yep. And so for mountain biking and for gravel riding, we will wear a long finger glove all all year round.

Kristin: 1:00:23

And it's I wear them now all the time.

Steve: 1:00:25

And it's called generally these are basically four. These are a lighter weight glove for for all year round use. Well, I say all year round. I should say three Cisa probably. Yeah. Yep. Then they make a lot of these glove companies make a slightly heavier version of that. A little bit more insulation on the back. Yeah. And then after that, you know, you're into full winter gloves. Yeah. But those mid-weight gloves with a little bit more extra uh layering, those were fantastic. Yeah. And you tend not to get too even if you overglove, you it you're like, oh, my hands are a little hot, but they're never, it's not that punch.

Kristin: 1:01:03

Yeah, I have the hand what it the hand up cooler weather glove.

Steve: 1:01:07

Yes, they have a they have uh most days glove and then a cool weather.

Kristin: 1:01:10

Cooler weather one. I have those cooler weather, and they are they're not so heavy that you put them on that you feel like you're wearing insulated gloves, but they just give you, and I'm gonna go to them earlier than you would, as with most fit most things. I probably had a month ahead of you on my cooler weather gear. Um, so those gloves will start making their appearance. And again, I like them because they're not so heavy that you're like, I'm wearing mittens now. Yeah, you know.

Steve: 1:01:40

So and then the final piece would be what I'm wearing right now: wool sweaters.

Kristin: 1:01:44

Yeah, the wool sweaters come out to be worn.

Steve: 1:01:46

So merino wool sweaters are well, I mean, they are, I guess, the original athletic clothing. Yep. And they are just amazing to ride in. And we make these really nice sweaters, and they are expensive, and then people say, Oh, but you ride in those? Absolutely, and they are phenomenal to ride.

Kristin: 1:02:10

We ride in them and we wear them for check presentation at our moment.

Steve: 1:02:13

Yeah, they regulate your temperature so so well, and you can splatter mud all over this, and then the mud dries, and you shake it, and you wouldn't even know it was dirty.

Kristin: 1:02:23

Yeah, it's and it's the wicking. What's nice about them is this it's not that you're not gonna get sweaty. Of course you're getting sweaty, but it wicks really nicely. They they don't smell, they are, as you said, easy to clean. Um, I don't even wash them that often because I'm so scared of shrinking them because they are merino walls.

Steve: 1:02:44

Yeah, it's kind of like jeans where you really shouldn't wash them every time you wear them. You you don't wash this every time you wear it. No, not at all.

Kristin: 1:02:52

Even if I've exercised in it, you you leave it out.

Steve: 1:02:55

Because they never smell.

Kristin: 1:02:56

Yeah, they're really good. So, I mean, they're exp they are expensive, but as a it's one of the few pieces of clothing again you can wear riding and and this will take that sweater will take us now through fall, through winter. Yes. And I'll use that sweater skiing, I use that sweater cross-country skiing.

Steve: 1:03:17

Yeah, a lot of times this will be my outer layer. Yeah, and I will fat bike in it, just have more layers underneath.

Kristin: 1:03:24

Yes.

Steve: 1:03:24

And then sometimes it's I have a shell if you know, depending on if I'm gonna be getting more wet on the outside. So either it's misting out, or I know that snow's gonna be spraying up and splattering all over me, which is then gonna melt on me. Then I'll have a shell on top of it. Right.

Kristin: 1:03:40

Yeah. But tis the season. What do they say? There's no such thing as bad weather, just bad eye clothing. Davis Norwegians who said that. No, probably the Swedish. Oh smart people. All right. Well, we should wrap this up. Cycling Together with Kristin and Steve is a production of Steve the Bike Guy, an independent bicycle shop in Eastern Massachusetts and Sundon Marketing.

Steve: 1:04:04

If you like the show, please leave a review or share with a friend. For show notes, links, or to leave a comment, question, or topic suggestion. Visit cyclingtogether.bike.

Kristin: 1:04:13

You can follow the shop on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok at Steve theBike Guy.

Steve: 1:04:19

Alright, see you next time. Thanks for joining the ride.

Kristin: 1:04:21

Bye.

Steve: 1:04:27

What are people hearing my directors?

Kristin: 1:04:30

Oh, there's music. You don't know that? No. In fact, that's why we've talked about it too long. Well, I just need sometimes we need to reset. We needed to reset, but okay.