4. Mountain Biking When It's Cold AND Dark

If you want to mountain bike outside during the winter (and still have a day job) there is a very good chance you will be riding at at night, in the cold. 

Inspired by a recent ride with "Friday Night Ride (FNR)" friends, Kristin and Steve share how riding at night gives a new perspective on your favorite trails, while also making new trails a bit more challenging. We also discuss the gear and clothing to wear to ensure you stay warm and enjoy your time on the trails.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

This is Kristen.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

And this is Steve.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

And this is Cycling Together with Kristen and Steve.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Yes, the cycling podcast about all things riding and riding together.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

And we are still doing it. My mom said to me the other day, she watched one or two of the episodes and said, I can't. Every week. Every week you're gonna do this. And I was like, yeah, that's the every week. We'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Did she watch or listen?

SPEAKER_01 0:30

She she watched.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Oh, she watched.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

She did watch. Okay. I think. I don't know. And I've heard from some friends. I heard from a former uh a mom from my Girl Scout troop who watched and she said, Um, I'm not even interested in planning a cycling schedule, but I enjoyed watching you and I enjoyed uh I enjoyed um you know just seeing how you're doing, and so I thought that was great. So thank you to everyone who's listening and watching. It's awesome. You got us back here. What are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Uh night riding. So this is uh a topic that came up from our law ride last week. So not only night riding, but night riding. We're gonna add an added um topic on top of that and right night riding in the cold, yeah. Specifically, and I can see from all your notes that a lot there's a lot of stuff about warmth.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

I try to do show notes ahead of time, and I was like, okay, what are the challenges? Visibility, warmth, keeping up. That's me, staying warm. Apparently, I'm I'm quite obsessed. I I am quite obsessed with being warm. I think that's my one of my bigger challenges when we talk about night riding. But let's start with where night riding starts for you when you I'm I'm I'm a newbie. I'm still figuring out riding at night. Um, you're not.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

So let's let's go back in the wayback machine.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Oh, way in the way back machine. So, so uh night riding sort of had its origins in central New York in the 80s, where a couple of teenagers would have a sleepover and then in the middle of the night sneak out and ride their bikes five miles down to the other end of the lake to their girlfriend's uh walk-out basement who were having a sleepover. And that's the for your reading club? This is how uh, as far as I know it, that's how um book club for the book club.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

For your book club? Yep. You used to tell this story to one of our friends, and he was who had daughters.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

He was all this wasn't me. This was just a couple of uh teenagers. This is how this is the origins of uh yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yes, yeah. I remember our friend being like, well, remind me to keep the door to my basement locked.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

See, those are the good old days. There were no cell phones, there was no GPS, there were 60. Nope, no, there were uh nobody had, I believe they existed, but nobody had floodlights that came on when you walked up to a house. Um yeah, that just just wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

There were also no helmets, there were also no nope, no, we didn't nope.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

There were no helmets. Well, not really, no. Didn't yeah, helmets didn't really come in until the late 80s.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Mostly in the fall or summer.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

Yes, sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

That that these children, these teenagers would have been doing it.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Um, so there's a lot of reasons people ride in the evening, they're commuting, they're you know, um, but for what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Yeah, so so yeah, so there's some tra there's transportation riding in the in the evening or the the night in the dark uh for commuting, for uh delivery per people who who have to get around on their bike. Yep. Um and that's a whole nother topic about because they need to be seen and to see. Right. And we're talking more recreation riding, which really means off-road riding, um, rather whether gravel or or mountain. And in this case, we're we need to see, you don't really need to be seen unless there's gonna be some roads.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

And it's really because if you want to be outside, if you want to ride outside uh and you have a job, and it's winter time and it gets dark at 4 35. So we have um a a group in the town that that the shop is in, um aptly called the Friday night ride riders, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Yeah, well, the Friday night ride, and it's the Friday night riders, sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Um, where I mean they are come hella high water, they are riding Friday night year round. Um and so yeah, we went on we went on Friday, which inspired this.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Yeah, it was FNR number three of the year, and we hadn't weren't able to make number one and two. So I think this was number three.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah. So um, so a couple things we're gonna talk about uh are we're gonna talk about kind of the challenges of riding at night. We're gonna talk about how to prep. So where do you want to start?

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Well, let's just talk about like the experience of riding at night, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, the good of it is it's it just transforms your trails, right? Like trails that maybe you have ridden time and time again.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Yeah, they're completely different in the dark.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Not the not re anywhere remotely the same thing, which is good, but also can be the challenge if, say, you're riding with a group of people who are really familiar with the trails, so at night they're not uh, you know, intimidated at all because while they're different, they're still their trails.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

Sure, you know that one rock that might be coming up, and you know that one route that's slippery because it's off camber that's coming up.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

And then if you're not as familiar, there were a couple of times, because I don't ride the F and R ride as often as you do, so I'm not as familiar with that some portions of it.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Where I mean, literally I would come around a corner and be like, ah, because it was even with a really good light, it's still really dark. You're not able to see around corners, right? Because if your light isn't pointing at it, you ain't seeing it.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

And last Friday, I mean, there was no moon, the stars were all out. Uh, it was perfectly still. It was yeah, it was so dark.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

So and it was cool. There was a moment where you like for the last little loop, you guys kept going, and I turned back to the house. And it without anyone there, no other lights, it was perfectly dark, right? Like no light pollution, no, if I could see stars, I couldn't because it was trees. Tree just trees, it just deep dark woods, and then I could hear owls, which just was so cool, right? Like just that moment of you know, yeah, still.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

That winter stillness that you don't you don't get that either in the summer.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yeah, because there's no bugs, there's no, there's no ambient noises, there's no deer cutting, there's no leaves rattling or rustling.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

It's just quiet. It was really cool. It is very cool. It is very cool, but it has some challenges.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

I mean, because it was cold. We we just talked about like if you don't know the trails that well, it had snowed recently.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

So while there wasn't a lot of snow, yeah, there was just a thin crust in some areas, but it really wasn't that the dirt wasn't slippery. No, no, we just had some issues with the wood bridges, which you're always gonna have no matter if it's wet at all. You'll always have wood bridge bridge slipperiness.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, that was that was definitely a moment of like yee, and I had at least one where I had to hike a bike. Yeah, because I just it was an off. They're just uh it's one trail that has lots and lots of planks. I don't even want to call them bridges.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Yeah, they're just it's like bridges with planks in between. Yes, but they're all ground level.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah, so you can get on them really easily. Yeah. Plink, plank, clink, plank, plank.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

But if you had to turn left into them or right into them, that's where and you didn't know it was coming.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Yeah, and some of them are only 18 inches wide.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, and there was at least one that was broken, right? Where I was yelling behind me, hole the guy behind me was like, Thank you. And then um just if it's hard to keep up with a group, this is a fast group, let's just say they're a fast group. You guys did a great job last night keeping us together, but there were moments because I was my me and this other guy I kept calling our own little B group. Um you guys were so far ahead that it was like we were alone, like almost to the point where I thought, oh, did I miss a turn? Because I really did. At one point I thought, wow, it is so dark and it's so quiet. Okay, but he's I think he's ridden here before. He would he would tell me if we had missed a turn. Um so it's just yeah, it's just a it's a it's a cool experience, and and I do want to do it more, I want to love it more.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

So the other night, say we talked about you know that the trails have become different, and you might know the small little items that are coming up, yeah. But it just it kept on seeing like you you be you'd be going through these trails and you're like, I know this trail really well. Why does it seem like I'm on a different trail? And and nighttime riding also makes you seem like you're going faster than you are, and that's a really great part about it, especially the downhills at night, and you're sort of sort of flying by the seat of your pants because you can't see everything in front of it, uh in front of you, and it it you're just you're just letting it go.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

This is when we are very different riders, because I can tell you I was not letting anything go. It did not feel it did not feel um so so this one has a lot of big climbs, and again, you guys are so strong. I was the only woman in the crew. That said, other women have gone and kicked my butt totally. So this is not a woman thing, it's just a me thing. Um and I would get to the top, and then the downhill would start, and you guys would just be gone. And I I like to go fast on a downhill. I can tell you, I was not doing that last night. I was like, okay, I'm gonna just go to nice because I cannot see far enough ahead of me. Because again, you can only see as far as your light. And I have a I had a pretty strong light. There was it wasn't that it, but I just was like, I'm a little risk averse too. You know, I want to don't mess up the money maker.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Where I'm gonna put a little bit on me because I did not, I turned your light on at the beginning of the ride, and I did not put it at a high enough brightness. I think it was on low, and we're gonna kind of get into um oh, we're getting into light longevity, but I should have in fact, your light even tells you how many hours it has of time of runtime every time you switch to different modes, like, but it's upside down and it's hard to see on your mount. So I was like, well, this is looks fine, and it was a little bit dim.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Okay, well, let's not do that again. I mean, I probably I don't know that it would make me go much faster. And you know, I always say to people when I'm riding with them, again, it's always interesting when you drive you ride with a group because you can ride with one group and be like, I am the best mountain biker, I am so good and I am so fast, right? And then you're so fit, and then you ride with another totally group, and you're like, I am the worst mountain biker, I am in the worst shape, I am not fit, I have no skills. Um group kind of in the like I have skills, I I can be here. I and and I just have to be okay with my pace, right? Like that I you know, I tell them I'm coming and I have my garment. Um, but that is actually our daughter and I were talking about this kind of in the context of a couple of other things, but it was like there is a you have to have that confidence to say I'm not the best at this, I'm not the fastest, I'm not the strongest, I'm not the most skilled. I'm pretty good. I know I can, I know I can do this, and I'm just gonna do it and be like okay, right? And because it's not the group, the group is amazing, they are the most welcoming group, so it's all in my own head. And I last night I did that great. Like last or Friday night, I was like, Yeah, this is a good pace. Yep, I am a happy little clam.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Yeah, and there were there, but there were people at your pace.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Oh, there were the guy behind me. I was like, I was like, you know. Oh, my point with that is is I'll always say, like, if you want to go faster down, you should go ahead of me because I'm not gonna. I'm this is my pace. And if you want to go faster up, I'm a pretty strong climber. But if you want to go faster up, the guy who I was with goes, oh no, I like this pace.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

This is a good pace.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

So this that's the other thing with a strong group. Sometimes I feel like they're like, oh good, Kristen's here. So we can be like, oh no, we had to wait for Kristen. All right, let's talk about lights.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Lights, all right. Let's go into the lights.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

How many do I need?

SPEAKER_03 12:58

All right, so with mountain biking at night, you can get away with just a light on the front of your bike, which I did Friday. Uh, it's not right, and I because all I had was the light on the front of my bike.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Because you couldn't find them, you had the light, you just didn't have anything to mount it with.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Right. So, but preferably, and what you should use is a light on the front of their bike and then a helmet light. So one on the top of your helmet. Yeah. And that makes all the difference in the world because now you have light where you're looking and light where where your bike is pointed, which are not always the same thing. So um, and I don't know what was going on with my light. Now I had a pretty bright front light.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Um, and I don't know what was going on with it. Yeah, but it it it was almost like it had a a timeout timer. And so it was like every 20 minutes it would just shut off. And I'm like, uh oh, I ran out of battery, and I just push the button and turn it on, and like, okay, it seems fine, and it would run and would run for a while again, and it would just shut off. So it it did shut off on the one of the big fast descents. Yeah, and it was pitch black.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

I would have been so well.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

This is where I would have been like this is where I have the capability of sort of slowing down a little bit, reaching up, pushing the button. Uh, unfortunately, it's a push the button, not a hold down of the button, and it came back on and I was on my way.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

All right, so two lights, and I do two lights agree that helmet light makes a huge difference. So I've had one on the bike, and then this year you put one on my helmet, which I'm like, this is so dorky looking.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

Um yeah, and but but it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

No, like it's I it makes all the difference. Um, all right, let's talk about lumens.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

All right, so yeah, lumens most manufacturers measure the brightness in lumens, but there's sort of a little bit to unpack here. Um, and and as LED technology has gotten better, the lumens have gone up for the same size light. Um, so you can get basically the same, you know, the same size package light that's gonna and the same weight about that's gonna go on your bike or your helmet um as you know as you can get up 1200 lumens now that was 600 lumens five years ago.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Batteries and and and photo cards. Yeah, but they're gonna get smaller and smaller, but I can get more.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

There are. There's a couple of companies though, like so um outbound lighting. Now they make really, really nice lights, but you do pay for them. But you you know, you're never gonna be disappointed in their lights. And they don't necessarily use lumens, they kind of go by a whole sparkles, uh sort of the shadows and so forth. They they do a lot with the actual projection of the light, and while they don't have lumens the like just phenomenal lights, okay. But for most of the lights people are gonna be buying or looking at lumens, yeah. And and so I mean, if we if we get into what you need now, so this this gets to a little bit of personal preference that I if I had the ability to just basically light up the whole the sky in front of me, right? Yes, um, you know, if I had m basically equivalent of multiple car high beams, I don't I don't want that, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:26

So that you don't want it to feel like you're riding during the day.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

No, I that ruins the nighttime experience for me. Yeah, so I do want a little bit of that darkness aspect to it.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Um, so for me, I like something around twelve hundred to twelve hundred or so um lumens up on the on the bike. Okay. Okay. And then around six hundred to a thousand I can get away with on my helmet.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

There seems to be amongst the people we ride with, I keep hearing about did you get the lights? Like, is there a light that everyone's getting right now?

SPEAKER_03 17:11

They were talking about that. I think they're getting the outbound lights.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, it does feel like it's since before Christmas. People are like, oh yeah, they were having someone's always having on set.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

These are three to four hundred and fifty dollars for the set of lights. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's it's a super premium light, it's not in everybody's budget.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Um, you know, if you if you look at the more lumens, the the more lumens you have, the pricier the light. And I and I should also say, like, every light you're probably gonna buy for this kind of purpose is gonna be have an internal battery that's rechargeable. Like the gone are the days of putting in double A's or C batteries in some cases. Um those those lights are are 10 bucks, 15 bucks, right? Those are just basic um like cheap flashlights that mount on your bike almost. Okay. Um so the you know, to you're looking to get a light that is say 2,000 lumens, you're looking at somewhere around$200 or so.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Um, for a front light. And and if you get something that's down to around like$1,200, um, yeah, you're probably in the$80 to$90,$90 range or so.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

You know, well done. I'm looking at your website.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

And you have from there's a 500 lumens that's I think this is the one that's on my helmet. Yeah. That's about$44. And the$1,400,$1,200 Lumen ones, the$1,400 lumen one you have is$100, the$1,200 is$90. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

So, but but well that was and that there's a lot more to that though. Okay. So one is if you a lot of people go onto Amazon and you can do this, and you can get decent unbranded lights, or you know, a brand that's all just a bunch of consonants put together, one of those things from Amazon. And and I will I will say that whatever lumens they are claiming is wrong. It's just it's just flat out wrong.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Because you can put any number in the Amazon box middle.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

They are just they are putting they are putting any number they want in there. But you can get decently bright ones, yeah. Um, but you really can't go wrong with a big name brand.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

Like uh Lasign, Psycholite, Knight Rider, the outbound lights, obviously. Ravemen.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Ravemen?

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Ravemen, yeah. Um there's a there's a a bunch of of good, well-established brands that really put engineering and design to those.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Well, and one of the things about light, so you you mentioned that you had turned my light, my The light on my bike, you had it was a little dim.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

And so we're talking about visibility, but let's also remember that if you're doing a group ride, your light is in a weird way competing with the other lights that might be behind you. Because at one point you were behind me with your full brightness um bike light. And it overpowered my light. So what was happening is I was casting a shadow, right? So you were right behind me. So my shadow is now in front of me, and your light was so bright that my light and my shadow, it was I had to move. I had to, I had to kind of go to the left.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Yeah so that you were the brightness of what you're seeing on to the left or the right of your shadow out was basically out out shining the middle. So so your eyes can't see as well, even though your light is shining down the middle. It was yes, I get that.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

So it was a little bit, it needed to be turned up. I also found that even just tilting it down a little bit made a difference, that it was a little bit too up, and so by tilting it down a little bit, I didn't uh increase the intensity, but I had just tilted it, and so now it was more on the ground in front of me than like trying to which is interesting.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

But you don't really think about the fact that if you're riding with a bunch of people that all have 2,000 lumens on the front of their bike and you have 600, you were in a one of the times my light went out, we there was you know, we were in just a group and it was just rider after rider after rider. I didn't even realize my light was out until we got to a particular turn in the trail and everybody started separating a little bit, and that's when I realized because because there's so many, the guy in front of you has all these lights going on, the guy behind you has lights going on, and you don't and sometimes you don't even realize in a group, yeah. Right, in a group, and especially since I didn't have a helmet light that night. If I had a helmet light, right? I well, I probably wouldn't actually would have noticed less, but right. Um and so also with the lights, you need to look at the run times. So that so this is where it gets a little complicated on what you're looking for for lights. Yeah, so you're looking for the runtime you need and the um beam pattern. Um, right? So let's go into runtime.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

So a lot of lights you I mean, a lot of lights will have flashing modes, which are to be seen. We're not gonna be talking about that because we need to see.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

That's if you're that's if you're on the road commuting, usually, and you want to make sure that's the right thing.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Yeah, and usually that's also during the daytime because you're right.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

So um let's so so let's say a lot of most lights will have three levels of light, and at the lowest level will have their longest runtime. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

But so if you there's a lot of lights out there that they're if let's say it's a 1200 lumen light. Well, at 12, if you run it at 1200 lumens, it's only gonna last an hour. So you sort of need to know what kind of ride you're gonna be going on. And honestly, for most people, an hour is just not long enough. It it it even if you're like, well, this is a 45-minute ride, yeah, but am I really pushing like do you really want to push up against the the edge of that that light going out? So you have you want to look at, you know, you might buy a 2000 lumen light because the middle mode might be 1400 lumens and it has a three-hour runtime. And you say, okay, I'm gonna use it in the middle mode, I'm gonna get that 1400 lumens, okay, and I'm gonna have three hours on that.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Um, some lights have a little pit meter, or like your um, you were using a Raveman that has an actual um LED like uh readout of the of the hours in half hour increments. And um so that's a way to know how much and it'll change based on how what what level you're at. Yeah, um, but a lot of lights and a lot of really good lights just don't have that. So you want to know, okay, I'm going out for a night ride, my light's fully charged, I know if I'm in the middle mode, I should have three hours, I'm I'm good, right? And so that's the best way to sort of do it, is just is to know your runtime on your light, okay. Um, that you charged it and and what what modes you're gonna use.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Can the cold affect runtime?

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Yeah, I mean, you know, cold affects these lithium batteries. Okay. Um, and everything. It is something to be aware of. I have not noticed a difference though in the cold.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Okay. And to your point, mine might have a uh an indicator, but I use a so I have my Garmin mount. Underneath it, I have like a one of those GoPro mounts that we put the light in, which means I would have to basically Yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

So you can't see right. It's very difficult. No, it's you can't, it's very difficult to see your readout.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Okay. Um, and then you also said beam pattern.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Beam pattern, yeah. So some lights are are if if it's like a single LED, then it could just be a basically a spot. Um and so it's just creating a big, around, a round circular light pattern that that spreads out as it as it gets further away.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

But then there's other many, many good lights have multiple LEDs, and you can turn them on each one on or off. Um, you know, and they'll have a spot pattern, they'll have a widespread pattern. Um, you know, and usually mountain biking, you want somewhat of a spread pattern.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Um, and then the outbound lights, um, they actually have a unique feature where they have an upper line limit. Oh. So you can control how high the beam is going with a very crisp uh upper limit. So that's really great, actually, if you're riding on the roads and you're so you can set it like kind of almost like a car headlight should be set, where you're not blinding the oncoming drivers. Right. Right? Because you've got it, you've got it set so that that light beam is not above the hood of the car.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Oh, yeah. That would be nice.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

And and and that can help in the trail as well. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

So other things, um, some of them have other features, right? Like I think my my Raveman has a I can like charge my phone on it.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

You can that has it has a USB out. Right. So you could use it as a battery pack if you wanted to. Not a lot of lights have that kind of feature.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Um, mounting systems. So we talked about um mine can go into a some of them can go into like the same mount you might put on a GoPro.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Yeah, and most of the big brands will have a GoPro mount adapter for their lights. Okay. So you take off if like uh the light might come out of the box with just basically a heavy-duty um stretch band that goes around and you just put it on top of your handlebar, stretched around. And those actually work really well, despite the fact that they're just sort of a big stretch band.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Except I will say we used to oh yeah, no, it wasn't that kind. So some of them are a clamp, right? And we had one that was a clamp that that we were trying to put on my handlebars, but the handlebars were not round, right?

SPEAKER_03 27:39

Handlebars. So you have a one-piece carbon bar which is not round at towards the stem, and that's why you need to use a GoPro mount.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Which is useless.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Yeah, yeah, you need a round bar.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah, so you need a round bar for those.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Yeah. All right, which most people have.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

So anything else you should look for in lights?

SPEAKER_03 27:56

So cost-wise, we're saying that I mean you can spend as much as you want, but quality light, you're probably looking at if you're going to be mountain biking at night, I mean, I would probably look to spend uh for the for the both the bike light and the helmet light, you should probably budget around$150 to$200. Okay. Yeah. So and to get to get the lights that are gonna last you and that you're gonna be happy with, and you're not gonna say, oh, I wish I spent a little more and got those better lights or that little bit more lumen light.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah, yeah. All right. So now let's talk about um it's cold. It's cold. It's cold. What is the coldest you've ridden in?

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Do you think? I do remember a fat bike ride that was about five degrees, I think. Okay. It was somewhere in the very low digits. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

I I will say I haven't quite cracked the code on how to dress for cold, really cold riding. Um because it's like cross-country skiing or snowshoeing, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:08

You really work up a sweat, which then can come back to bite you in the yeah, this is where it can actually get dangerous, if you will, cold riding. Yeah. So if you're dressed properly and um well, if you're dressed properly, then the cold is really not an issue. You know, you could be getting ready to go for your ride, and you're like, oh, it's freezing out and so forth. Right. And you get all your layers on, you get dressed, and you get ready to go out, and you're like, well, now it's not that bad. Um, so it's it is all about the layers, but then when you start riding, yeah, you can work up a sweat. Right. And if you stop riding, or if you have an emergency or whatever, and you have to stop in mid-ride, and let's let's say something catastrophic happens to your bike and you have to walk out of the woods and so forth. You know, if you're sweaty, this and it's 20 degrees outside, that's where it you can the cold can really get to you.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Yeah. All right, so let's start with um hands and feet extremities.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Because I always say if I get my hands and my feet and my core, yeah, then I'm well it's it's all really it's it's about hands, feet, and and and core.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

And I have so it was interesting. We were talking um on Friday night afterwards with the guys, and they, you know, they were they were all great, and they were like, oh, it's just a good wool socks, and I'm fine. I am never fine. I am never, I have what is called uh Ray nodes, um, which I actually looked it up because I it's like oh I have Ray Nodes, just so everybody knows what that means. Basically, what it means is that the smaller blood vessels that supply blood to the skin narrow to the point that like I get no blood flow up here at the fingers turn like white. It's mostly women. And actually, as we were talking last night, I was like, this feels like one guy goes, Yeah, that sounds like my wife. I was like, Yeah, I'm fairly sure that it's mostly women that I'm talking about who have this, right? And then when I get in the shower and I try to warm up, it is brutally painful. Oh, painful as the as it comes back. Um, so I finally broke down and I bought some battery-powered gloves. Um, and these were great.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

Yeah, that was the first that was the first uh use of them, really.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah, I brought I brought these with me. I I actually got them on Poshmark, so I got them about 50% off. They were brand new in the box. Um, the battery is gigantic. Um, for those who are listening, I'm holding up the battery, but it actually didn't really get in the way. This was a game changer for me on the ride on Friday because at the beginning of the ride, my fingers were already getting cold. And I have had rides where I'm like scrunching my hand in my gloves trying to get the the circulation back.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Um, and these lasted a a good long while. My what I can't figure out is they call these liners, they're pretty thick. And I'm trying to figure out what I can put what am I lining? Because like this is a pretty, but it's not for mountain biking, so I'm not I'm worried they're not like too much.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

No, and because of the because of the uh abrasion of a grip on mountain biking, yeah, I'd be worried about wearing through those. So you probably need an overglove on that.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yes, so we're gonna look into this. But these were these were great. I have to say, I reached a point where my hands were sweating, sweating. Um, and they lasted um for the full amount. I have one pip left. So these were great.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Yeah, you probably had them on for, I mean, you had them on even at the at the after ride and fire and so forth. So you probably had them on for two and a half hours.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

And yeah, yeah. And they were they were really good. They're from Aurora, which is the place that makes um, I think the vest every woman I know got for Christmas. Um, because it's every guy at the thing. So my wife has that vest. And I was like, Yep, so do I. I got it for Christmas. Um, but what do you what do you wear on your fingers?

SPEAKER_03 33:09

So when it's when it gets really cold like that, and I'm I'm gonna say I really around the freezing point and under, right? So let's say just let's just say under 30 degrees. Um, that's where to me, I don't typically rot wear gloves. Okay. Um, I can get away with ski gloves around 30 or so, but really I'm going for um these other mitten style gloves. So not you can't use a mitten on a mountain bike because then you don't have braking power. I mean, you there are certain brakes that have enough of a long blade on them that you can just grab it with your whole your whole fist of a mitten. Right. But um, you know, the the the gloves I have have a separate um pointer finger, and then the other three fingers are together. And so, and then this is also this this glove is sort of based on a liner with a shell on top of it. So it's does it sort of leave it. Yeah, and the lobster claw is sort of the is that what it's called to the case. Yeah, everybody will call them lobster claws. This is another one here. This is where your uh pointer finger, your middle finger individual, and then the other the other two fingers are in a in a pocket by themselves.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Friends in a pocket by themselves.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Then they have the ones where the two you basically have two, that the sort of the true lobster claws where you've got the the two separations um with down the middle, and those yeah, like Dr. Spock. Those feel weird to me. I don't prefer there.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

I just rode with those the other day. Um, and I wish they worked better for me. Just again, my hands get so cold. Um, it was it was still hard to break, even though I had two fingers instead of so I think these seem like a really cool with the one. All right, so then feet. Um, this is where I had a failure on Friday. So we have I have new boots that you got me, which I really like. They have a lot of room in them, so I feel like I can get a nice sock in them. And I tried to use these, aren't the hand warmers, those toe warmers, the chemical toe toe warmers, those were just a bust. Those didn't do anything for me.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Yeah, which is surprising. I'm I'm surprised those didn't they they must not have they must have either been old. Well, it's just iron filings, but so I was gonna say old, but um maybe, but I also think there's not much of those iron filings in those.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

The toe ones are slimmer, and so I have always noticed they never warm up as much as a few.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Did you put it under your foot or on top of your foot?

SPEAKER_01 35:39

So um, no, so now I'm looking at battery-operated socks. And we did have um one of the riders that rides with me through our women's group. She, I had posted something about my new gloves, and she actually wrote me to say that she um has heated everything. She likes um, I was I was like, maybe I should get footbeds, like heated footbeds and first heated socks. She found finds that footbeds also don't get that warm and that socks are more flexible. She's actually she says, I have two pairs of socks. I rotate everywhere. I I use them fly fishing, crewing for people at races, outdoor events. She's a very outdoorsy person. Um, here's my only thing I have a button on the side of these gloves so I can see what level they're at and how the battery is. Yep. My socks are gonna be under like three layers of stuff. Like, how do I well?

SPEAKER_03 36:41

It might be like the bike lights, if that you know they're fully charged, and it and when they're on, they last X amount of hours.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

You do have some socks that sink to your phone.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

See, that seems a little bit too much.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah. Um, so I guess I'm putting it out there if anyone has a good recommendation for for heated socks because I think that's gonna be my next. If I can figure out the socks, the the feet and the hands. So I'm halfway there with the hands. Feet, I have some time. That is so much of the equation of me being happy.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Um, and then yeah, then there's the body. So I was wearing several layers. I had like my I don't like my arms to get too stiff, right? I don't like too much fabric on my arms. I feel like it's I get like in a this, right? Um but I definitely was like hot and then I was cold. And so I haven't quite figured out like how were what was your layers like? What did how did you do?

SPEAKER_03 37:43

I this is I am I am sort of fortunate. I I believe now that I have been riding long enough that when we need to go out, no matter what the temperature, I always seem to choose the right amount of layers, and it is it is uh a random guess of what I am putting on in a way.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Oh, good. So I'm looking for science, and you got magic.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

But based, yes, but I have magic for you. So I was wearing, let's see what I was wearing. I was wearing temperature. It was 25. It was 25. Yeah, maybe 26. Yep. Okay. Um, so I was wearing a sleeveless uh craft base layer.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Okay, me too.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

Okay, then on top of that.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

What was yours made out of?

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Oh, just it wasn't wool, it was just a craft. Polypropylene or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Okay, I was wearing the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

And then on top of that, I had a craft uh long sleeve base layer with a windblock front chest.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

No, did not have the chest.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

So I had windstopper front chest. Okay. Okay. Yep. Uh then on top of that, I had wool a wool sweater. The original athletic Yeah, and an athletic wool sweater, not like a Christmas sweater.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

I love this sweater so much.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

And then on top of that, I had oh, and then I had an outer jacket.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Okay. So the difference was I had the base layer, I had the craft base layer, but mine wasn't a windstopper. I had the I had the so I do, my formula tends to be Steve plus one.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Right? That does generally work well for me. Um I didn't have a heavier jacket on like you had. I had a a windbreaker jacket, like, and then I had our windstopper vest on top.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Okay. And you and how was your how was your core?

SPEAKER_01 39:28

When I was riding, I was actually good, but I started to sweat a lot. And I actually think that might have been because the windbreaker jacket was almost the wrong material. It was like like it's a rain, it's the it's the prolazumi rain one, you know. I liked it also too, because it had bright yellow um sleeves, which not so much for someone seeing me, so I don't get hit by a car, but so you could see me in the woods. Like if you saw me coming, you could see my sleeve. Yeah. I was hoping that would be helpful. Um but there were time near the end when I finally called it, it was because we were standing and I was getting very chilled.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

Oh, well, that'll always happen on a winter ride. No matter what you're wearing, you're gonna get chilled when you're standing.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

And my feet were cold.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

If so. If um, you know, if you weren't if you weren't cold during the ride and you weren't, and and even if you were sweating a little bit, you're going to want a you know, um, as long as you you're like, oh boy, I'm overheating. You don't think you ever felt that. No, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Do you wear a buff?

SPEAKER_03 40:35

I do I sometimes, but it was not cold enough for a buff for me.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Okay, see, I was wearing a buff, which I love.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

I think buff is like the best piece of little, little magic clothing that makes yeah, I always wear a buff.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Yeah, and that prevents the air kind of going down the top, keeps your neck warm, and that also keeps your core locks it in.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

That's a buff I got. The my favorite buff to wear is one we got at Mount Watchuset because I forgot one, and you were like, I cannot believe we are buying a buff. And we own 18 of them. Many of them from your years of skiing as a kid, and I inherited all that stuff. And I was like, I know, but this one is it's fleece on the inside, it's like some fabric on the outside, and it's it's like got a kerchief bottom. Oh so it it I didn't even know that. Yeah, so it it's flat on the top, but then it's cut so it's longer in the front, so it fits in my so it's I really like it. It's I'll post a link to it if I can find it. Um yeah, no, I I mean I think I got it pretty right. Like so on the bottom, I was wearing, we were both wearing cycling tights.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

We were cycling tights, yep, and then over pants. So you were wearing your basically your fairly lightweight um mountain biking pants. Yep. And I actually had a little heavier weight, um, we're gonna call it sort of a winter jogging, winter cross-country skiing type of pant. I use it, yeah. They're sort of my winter snow cycling pant.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

Um, and if anything, I was a little bit uh hot on the bottom.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

I could imagine you were, because I was perfect. And I also I think you have to balance. Um, again, like like I don't like my arms to be too have too much on them. Legs too. We went riding a week or two before that, same ride. Um, and I was wearing a pair of craft um bibs that you bib tights you would get me that when you hold them, you're like, oh, these are so heavy and awesome. And as we're riding, I was like, I hate them because they are so heavy that they felt like restrictive, like it almost felt like I had bandages on or something. Like I was having trouble pedaling. Um, so probably great for another application, midnight marathon ride, those pants will be perfect. But trying to navigate the climbs of mountain biking, I actually felt like they were almost like a wetsuit, like it was that kind of tightness to them. They're not even tight, I think they're actually too big. Um, but yeah, just a just a basic pair of tights and then those Scott um nylon pants, which those were fine. As I said, I've never been like, oh, my thighs are cold. I'm like it's hands, feet, head, ears.

unknown 43:27

Right.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Yeah, and then I had a I had a very thin um beanie on my head under my helmet. So it just was there really to cover my the tops of most, you know, the three-quarters of my ear.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

I have to cover my ear completely because if it gets in my ear, it it gives me pain. Oh, yeah. But my head is so big, and every beanie maker thinks everyone's got a little peanut head that my favorite ear covering is actually a running beanie I got that I cut the top off so I could it over fully over. So basically a headband now. Sure, fine. It's a headband. I was just really grumpy that I had that every beanie I put on was like boop up here at the top. Because I have big brains. All right.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Oh, and then and then um and then glasses. Yeah, so um we actually uh are fans, we get like a 12-pack of safety glasses, yeah. Of clear safety glasses, clothes, right? Um, and they're and they're inexpensive. You don't if you lose one, oh well. Um, and they're great. Um yeah, we just I love those things.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

And then I got prescriptions. Um, and now I will say my I just got a new pair of glasses. Um, and as I was talking to the eye doctor, I was like, all right, here's what I need. I need a pair of glasses that I can see far away and I can see my garment. I need a pair of glasses that go from light to dark. I need a pair of glasses that I can ride in the woods. And they were like, great, we can make those happen. So that's what I have now. They didn't cost me a pretty penny, but my insurance is pretty good. Um, but that that is one thing. I do like a pair of glasses that it's transition. What is that transition, right?

SPEAKER_03 45:22

Like when they do clear to so well, that's a that's a brand, but yeah. Yeah, but it's that idea that it goes from light sensitive light sensitive.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

I've always liked those kind of glasses, and now that I have prescription, I can't use our cheap ones anymore. Right, right. Anything else on night riding? I just have the night rider theme going through my head.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

All right. Oh, and we didn't talk about um rear lights. Um not like I would say that maybe there were four four riders using rear lights. The important thing, and I actually like a rear light, it's it's a nice thing to follow, but if you're gonna use a rear red light at night, no blinking, no blinking, and and dim, right? So you just want that sort of faint red glow, and it and it can be very nice for the riders behind you to especially if they lose a little track of you to actually see you up the trail a little easier. I mean, obviously your headlights sort of going through the the woods, but it's yeah, it's remarkable how that sort of disappears um into the woods.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

So we do have um, I always include links to products and stuff that we uh recommend or we're talking about. Um, some of these can actually be purchased through Steve the Bike Guy. Um, and then others we will have an Amazon store um with some of the items that we have shared. All right. So we will wrap up with our segment we call Seen While Scrolling. Because we are mad scrollers. Mad sec I always I said to someone, I'm a mad second screener. Like I'll watch a movie and be like, oh, that's the actress on Wikipedia and you know. Um, so what did you see while scrolling this week?

SPEAKER_03 46:59

So this is an interesting one. It's gonna be more um of welcome news to New Englanders. Um, but we just uh there was an article about a$2.5 million uh donation from an anonymous donor to uh fund what they're calling a world-class mountain bike trail system uh uh in western Massachusetts in the Berkshires near uh Pittsfield. And it's gonna call the Shaker Ridge Trails. They already have a website. Yep. Um and what are they saying right now? In the single tracks article, it says they're gonna have phase one's gonna have 25 to 30 miles, yep, and with a grand vision calling for 60 to 100 miles. So um I have looked at the area, they have the land out there, they have the terrain. I mean, this could be another sort of massive destination spot like Kingdom Trails is um here in New England, um, and so forth. So uh that's just you know, more trails is just super welcoming.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Yeah, apparently, um uh in conjunction with NEMBA, New England Mountain Bike Association, was part of the funding they got. Um, and apparently outdoor recreation contributes$13.2 billion annually to the Massachusetts economy.

SPEAKER_03 48:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Yeah, so it's really considered kind of making it a destination.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

Yeah, the Berkshires are awesome, but um, like Pittsfield and Adams and so forth, there's a couple communities out there that really got hit hard with the loss of some industries, particularly like General Electric. Um, and so there's some downtrodden communities out there that could use a that could well recreation can boost up some of these economies.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Well, because we're already seeing them start to reinvent themselves, right? So speaking of um out there, the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art, Mass uh Mocha is out there, it's that's a converted mill building, right? Like mill complex. And then when we were out there um recently, we noticed that like there was a whole line of houses that somebody had taken over all of them and had turned them into a hotel. Oh, yeah, the row houses, the row houses, which was very cool. So yeah, I think if this continues to grow that gives them alternative income, and I mean it's just a gorgeous area. So if we're also conserving the open space, I mean that's one of the things when I'm talking to people who maybe have some reservations about mountain bikers in a certain trail system. I think we both would say when we have seen those in the mountain bike community adopt an area, everyone has benefited. Right? Hikers benefit, it becomes more accessible, it's the the the signage is better, the bridges are better, like everyone benefits. Um, so I'm really excited about this. You know, it's one of our favorite parts of the of the state. Um, so I think it'll be awesome. Yeah, I think it's gonna be really cool. All right, well, anything else?

SPEAKER_03 50:10

I think that about wraps it up for the show notes, links, or to leave a comment or question for a future show. Visit cyclingtogether.bike. And if you like the show, please help spread the word and tell a friend and leave a review.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

And that's it. Thanks for uh cycling together with us.